($5) Fun with JJ

BozMan82 · #1 06-27-2007, 12:57 AM

Hi all,

Here are two hands where I was dealt JJ. They are both from the same tourney at an early level.

Hand #1:
Read on villain - Been fairly quiet thus far. Only thing somewhat unusual I saw him do was make a raise to only 3 BB from LP into a field of 4 limpers a few hands ago. (Hand wasn't showndown, however.)

How's my line here? I thought that villain's min-bet was kind of strange, so I stuck in a raise of about 3/4 the pot to hopefully take it down right there. His smallish bet on the river didn't seem like a value bet, however.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1100)
Hero (t1785)
MP1 (t1930)
MP2 (t1975)
CO (t1810)
Button (t2320)
SB (t1520)
BB (t1060)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to t120, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t90

Flop: (t255) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t30, Hero raises to t220, BB calls t190

Turn: (t695) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (t695) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t210, Hero calls t210

----------------------------

Hand #2:

Read on villain: Somewhat loose/aggressive and been raising fairly often. On about the 4th hand of the tourney, he raised from MP with A9s. Is JJ at this stage good enough to look him up?

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1975)
UTG+1 (t1780)
MP1 (t2320)
MP2 (t1580)
CO (t1505)
Button (t1205)
Hero (t1205)
BB (t1930)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t90, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero raises to t250, BB folds, MP1 raises to t2320 (All-in), Hero ??

mnlgrind · #2 06-27-2007, 02:24 AM

hand 1: I like the reraise on the flop, his min-bet might be just air or he's inducing a bluff. the flop is dry, calling your raise here alarms me a bit so we need to slow down, like the turn check, on the river I'm folding the river , I know i'm beat.

hand 2: with your read yes I would shove villain here with JJ. as played, call villain all-in

RexWoo · #3 06-27-2007, 03:38 AM

1. t90 preflop, just call the flop

2. I just call preflop

J-P · #4 06-27-2007, 03:44 AM

1)Treating his min bet like a check and raising is fine, as is calling. I'd fold the river though.

2)I'd just call preflop but with your read on this guy, it can't be too bad. If you're going to 3bet him here, make it a little more, t280-300. The problem I see with this line though is it's going to be a bit tougher to play a lot of flops OOP with your jacks here, this is why I just prefer to call pf.

Two Tells · #5 06-27-2007, 05:44 AM

On the first hand, since he didn't reraise you pf, I'm thinking he is starting with a couple of high cards, or maybe a mid-pair. You indicated that he has been quit, so no tricky play in his history. I will assume he is playing the hand straight up.

On an uncoordinated flop, he min bets. When I see that it is usually done when they get a piece of the flop but want to keep the pot small--pot control (maybe 2nd pair or something). Or, they are hoping by min betting you will come over the top with a bigger bet (which is exactly what you did). I like your raise--with an overcard, you must define your hand. You get called, which should be a bad sign for you... on an uncoordinated flop, either he hit something or he is a fish! I suspect he has a K with a weak kicker and is trying to keep the pot small, or flopped a set or two pair and is tring to suck you in.

At this point I think about the hands that make sense from the betting patterns. Which hands are beating me that fit the pattern?

AK, for sure.
KQ-KT, fits the pattern and would cause him concern if he puts you on AK.
K9, I don't know about the call preflop, but the flop bet / call makes sense.
99 fits.
22 is unlikely seeing the player has been fairly quiet (implying tight).

Hands you are beating...

TT, fits the pattern.
AQ or AT, fits (AJ unlikely since you have 2 J's).
88 fits.

On to the turn... the A comes. He checks, you check. Why did he check? One of two reasons... either the A scared him, or it helped him and he was trying to induce a bluff. I suspect it scared him, because there is no reason if he has a hand to wait to the river to try to get more money in the pot. He has to think that if you have an A you will bet again, but if not, you will check. So it doesn't make sense for him to check it unless it is a scare card for him.

So, going back to the previous list... which hands would scare him?

AK, no way, so we can take it off the list.
KQ-KT, fits the pattern.
K9, shouldn't scare him.
99, no way.
22, nope.

And of the hands you are beating...

TT, yes.
AQ or AT, nope, so eliminate these holdings.
88 yes.

So at this point, assuming we are correct about the A scaring him, I'd put him on KQ or KT for hands beating you and TT or 88 for hands you are beating.

OK, the final card comes... 8 clubs. You checked the turn so he must not think the A helped you. Or, the 8 helped him. So that means there are now 3 hands (KQ, KT, and 88) beating you and only one (TT) that you are beating. That is again assuming the A didn't help him. Based on the betting patterns and not knowing anything additional about the player, and assuming he is playing it straight up, I'd fold the river and wait for a better opportunity to get my money in.

-----

On the second hand, I wouldn't risk calling an all-in early in a tournament calling with JJ. I would have called the 90 bet and made my decision on the flop.

MagicKK · #6 06-27-2007, 05:54 AM

1) I like your line up until the river, in which case I'd fold. The BB would only call PF with at least a K/A in his hand assuming your read of quiet (tight) is accurate.

2) Call PF. Then re-evaluate on the flop.

BadBeatsCrewDerk · #7 06-27-2007, 05:56 AM

Hand 1 reraise more preflop and fold river.

Hand 2 against someone that you know is laggy, go ahead and get it in preflop. Against a solid player I'd fold here though.

AMT · #8 06-27-2007, 09:20 AM

hand 1 fold the river, you beat nothing thats betting.

hand 2 flat call pf. as played im sharkscoping villain, folding otherwise i guess.