88 get's c/r'd by good TAG in biggish pot

aargh57 · #1 06-22-2007, 11:01 AM

In this hand villain is a good TAG 26/18/2.8 (he's one of the good tags on the FT regs list). When he c/r'd me on the turn I was trying to nail down his range and I thought that he could have trip Tens or 9's, AT,AJ,KQ,KJ or QJs(for some reason I didn't put A9 in this but I know I should've). I thought that he'd cap with JJ+ as well as AK,AQ. I doubted he'd c/r the flop w 88 or 77 and he wouldn't have raised UTG w 22. Is this calldown bad here. I was thinking that the size of the pot justified it on the chance that he was c/ring a draw. If a facecard hit's I should fold right?

Full Tilt 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, MP folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

secretprankster · #2 06-22-2007, 11:07 AM

Villain's name? Would usually just fold the flop here as you're praying he has QJ and doesn't hit a 12-outer. It's a big pot but still - people don't screw around here rly.

danzasmack · #3 06-22-2007, 11:09 AM

that's how i roll. sometimes pop the turn an chickity-check el rio.

aargh57 · #4 06-22-2007, 11:11 AM

studholdem

Absolution · #5 06-22-2007, 11:12 AM

If you don't think he can have a smaller pocket pair here you should fold the flop because you are crushed.

secretprankster · #6 06-22-2007, 11:24 AM

Hm, vs. him it's pretty tough. He's very good but hands in his range that you beat are not great in number.

Quick math...

77/66/QJ/88: 6 + 6 + 1 + 16 = 27

T9s/JTs/KTs/QTs/ATs/ATo/99/TT/A9s: 2 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 12 + 3 + 3 +3 = 35

Rough range for him.

So it's a lot more of a calldown than I thought, it seems. Though if he folds QJo UTG, this swings it back to a fold I would think.

TheHip41 · #7 06-22-2007, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think he can have a smaller pocket pair here you should fold the flop because you are crushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

sharpie · #8 06-22-2007, 10:21 PM

What do you guys do in villain's spot with draws? I would just call with all of my draws, partly because that board is in the playing range of the coldcaller.

I think check/raising with QJ is a good play in a pot of this size. If the middle guy calls we have decent equity, if he folds we get heads up with a TAG who can presumably fold AK/AQ.

What about KQ/KJ? Our equity is shittier and if the middle guy coldcalls we're now losing money on the bets. Still the pot is big, but I'm thinking the middle guy doesn't fold enough on this board. Thoughts?

Heisenb3rg · #9 06-23-2007, 12:17 AM

The only draw id get agressive with here is QJ. KQ is a peice of poo if hero has a hand (you are drawing to a gutshot). Plus who knows how much action will be going in..

A good player is only going to have QJs raising UTG, not QJo .
I could also see a good player raising 6's and 7's for protection.

66/77/QJs/AT/A9/99/TT/KTs/QTs/JTs and MAYBE KQ/JJ are his range

4 combos = 47% dog
12+12+3+3+3+3+3 39 combos = 0-8% dog
12 combos = 92% fav

=~ 26% equity.

It's very close, and adding a few hands, taking away a few changes your decision. I think you can call down and fold to a face card, but it's very close.