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#1
06-21-2007, 03:45 PM
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hola (nltrn)
hello everyone. i've been browsing through the threads on this forum for about 3 weeks, and now that i have my bearings, i suppose i should post every once in a while.
i am a long time full ring low/mid cash game player, but i never got much into tournament formats. i would play stts sometimes when i was drunk or otherwise unfit to play my normal games, because it occupied my child-like attention span without costing too much money. one day a friend of mine looked up my stats, and it was kind of embarrassing for me, a supposedly good player, to show a loss in low limit tournaments. so, i decided i'd play some heads-up matches to clear my good name so that i wouldn't have to listen to it anymore. long story short, i liked it a lot, and i want to keep playing them. i like not having to play 8 tables to not be bored. i like not having to hope that i'm the guy that gets to bust the table idiot. i like people being almost forced to at least pay a small ammount of attention to what i'm doing, and i like being able to actually play poker instead of just being a robot that mops up other peoples' mistakes over the long haul to beat the rake. i know that these forums have a very analytical, nuts and bolts flavor to them, so i feel like i at least have something to offer in return, since i am a very logic and philosophy oriented player, that focuses much more on game dynamics than detailed hand analysis. (not that the two conflict) i'd like to bounce my thoughts on the format to this point off of you guys and get some feedback. feel free to set me straight, because i'm here to learn. at this point i'm still in the fish tank. i have the bank to play higher limits, but i'm a firm believer in working up and mastering the various levels before moving on to harder ones. i don't know about this format, but in cash games, even after moving up quite a few levels, being able to take maximum advantage of bad players is one of the key skills to beating the rake. if i can't do that in this format, i know it will be a real struggle later on if i can't get a free lunch at least every once in a while. so far i have played just over 150 matches of 5s with an roi of 15%. i'm pretty happy with that, because i know that in the beginning i was making a lot of big mistakes that i don't make so much now. i'm now moving up to 10s (oh boy!) to see how that goes. my approach at this point is fairly simplistic, but i'm trying to evolve and work in new wrinkles as i go without doing anything drastic. before reads take hold, i use a pretty straight-forward approach, using general strategy i picked up from hoh2, since it was really the only resource i had at the time. i try to be fairly predictable in the beginning though, because i want to get a true sense of how my opponent likes to play as opposed to how he chooses to adjust to me if he classifies me in some other category. while the blinds are still in the first 3 phases, i'm just looking for something the other guy likes to do a little too much. at these limits, people tend to be one trick ponies and overuse certain plays. my goal is to detect it, but to keep it in my back pocket, and use it against them at opportune times for me. when i first started playing, i kept making the mistake of just beating people over the head as soon as i got a read on them, and then they would be on to me, and adjust, sometimes in very unpredictable ways. i don't want that. i just want a guy at the end of the match to feel like the cards just didn't go his way, even though that may not really be the case. so far, here are some of my observations of mistakes that inexperienced players tend to make and my approaches to them: chronic slowplayers-against these guys i don't really worry very much about being slow played. if i have a hand, i'll still bet it. if i want to show down or draw, i'll take my cards. the real value to me so far has been in attacking their bets more often than i normally would. if a guy tries to slowplay for an extra bet every time he catches top pair or better, than what's he got when he's betting out on the flop? well, probably nothing that can stand a raise i would imagine. like i said before, i try not to overuse things once i catch on, but its really nice to be able to steal some good sized pots from someone by attacking their bets once the blinds go up. excessive pfr-i have no issues with raising a wide range of hands before the flop, especially in this format, and especially against certain opponents, but i frequently run into players that don't put much thought into how they go about it. they won't mix up their play by occassionally limping strong or medium/strong hands, so they can be easy to exploit post flop in limped pots. example: opponent limps on the button with 78. i check with garbage. flop is A84. i check with garbage. opponent bets. i stick in a raise, because i know he doesn't have an ace. he folds a good hand, and i take in a small pot with trash. of course, you have to be careful with that, because some players still won't give up that easily. chronic floaters-in my opinion, slowing down floaters isn't just a matter of exploitation, but really more of something you must do in order to stand a chance in a match. if a guy is floating on me left and right when i have marginal hands and forcing me to bet or be bet at, i need to put a stop to that in a hurry. my approach at this point is to play dead on the turn with any medium/strong or better hand and then stick in a big raise when they come after the pot. i used to have to do that a lot in cash games too, but for different reasons. in a cash game, i was really just looking to steal a pot or gain a bet. in this format, i'm just looking to be able to show down more marginal hands oop without having some goon bet at me every single time i check a hand to him. chronic cbetters-i know a lot of people disagree with me on this, but cbetting is one of those things that almost always better in a vacuum than in practice. don't get me wrong. i think cbetting is the best choice more often than not, but i also think that it can be overused and easily taken advantage of, especially in a format like this. the true advantage of position is not in seeing your opponents action first, it is in that you hold the keys to the next street. if an opponent holds a good hand, they should have some fear of giving you a free card in most instances. if you always cbet, that fear is removed. not only that, but you offer better implied odds preflop, since your cbet is imminent. against chronic cbetters, i will often attack their bets when i am in position and the board comes dry (very rarely when its paired, though). i will also check my strong hands to them oop, even on coordinated boards, to win an extra bet. against a player that might try to draw or show down a hand once in a while, a coordinated board is a liablity to me when i have a strong hand out of position. against a chronic cbetter, it can sometimes be an asset, because my actions will often emulate a draw. of course, one has to be careful, but that's always the case. anyways, i'm tired of rambling for now. feel free to add any thoughts, insights, insults, death threats, etc. 
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#2
06-21-2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: hola (nltrn)
oh, and as a sidenote. i did see the readme thread and the part about general planning discussion, etc. i almost didn't post this after seeing it referenced in another thread, but i decided to anyway.
my thoughts on that come from the perspective of someone that's already done enough detailed hand analysis to have bad dreams about it. that stuff is important, but after you've been around long enough, its fairly automatic. i think its great to always go back and look at it, and to teach it to new and intermediate players, but really, once you have a firm grip on it, you eventually come to the realization that when it comes to technical play, the more difficult a decision is to make, the more trivial it is. i've been around various forums for the last few years, and i have seen the same technical discussions of highly marginal situations debated over and over and over again. i benefited from it greatly in the past, but i figured that its always nice to have a breath of fresh air. if its a big problem, i'll stay away from it, but i would imagine that the spirit of that clause in the forum description was really more in reference to "HAY GUYS HOW DO I WIN?" kind of threads.
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#3
06-21-2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: hola (nltrn)
You indeed have some very good insight in poker. I agree just about everything you told. Welcome to the forum and continue posting your thoughts open-mindedly as you did here, please [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#6
06-22-2007, 02:08 AM
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Re: hola (nltrn)
good points. i know you know this, but you also can't lean on any kind of concrete routine in HU. HU SNGs are so different from SNGs for this reason. in SNGs, there is a very robotic, very correct way to play. in cash games, there is some more flexibility. but in HU SNGs, there is the most flexibility of any game, imo. remember to use that.
if someone is a "chronic" anything, they have leaks. you can't read this post and say ok now i have a plan vs. this type of person. every single situation in a HU match should be weighted on your history vs. that particular player. and even if uve never played a person before, still be careful of having "default" plays. its easy to get into a rut that is easily exploited, especially when playing long sessions with multiple tables. this is exponentially important with each level you move up. good first post, i agree with everything you said.
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#7
06-22-2007, 07:56 AM
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Re: hola (nltrn)
yeah, i know. i'm just trying my best to get a feel for what different things i should be looking for in hands to break down how players think, and the best ways to use that information if a good situations comes up. just trying to play solid cards still rules most of what i do.
last night i played this guy, and each of the few times that he made a pot sized bet on the flop there were draws present on the board. each time he had made a big pair on the flop that got shown down, he had checked it to me on the flop. each time he had made a small bet and i had a decent holding, he folded when i attacked his be. the last hand of the match, blinds 25/50. he had about 600 chips to my 2400. he limps in on the button, and i miniraised on the bb with QdTd. he calls. board comes Ks2c3c. i made a pot sized continuation bet, hoping to take it down, and he called. turn comes Kh. according to what i thought i knew about the guy, i should have given up, but i bet enough to commit him anyway, because in a situation like that, someone is still going to have to show me the cards just about nomatter how they've been playing. he gets the last of his chips in, flips over a 4s5d, misses the river, and i win the match with a Q high. so, i'd say things are never black and white, especially against the better players, but i mainly just try and weight my frequencies and tendencies based on what i have to work with. that's how i got the lead in the first place, but in the end it still came down to playing my cards right despite of all of that. a couple of weeks ago, i think i would have probably screwed up on both counts.
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