raise 3.5 times or more in deep stack?

[ilosealot]

I guess I am stupid to ask this question.
not a while ago, sklansky posted an article about brad booth going busto, and one of things he mentioned was that he raised too much preflop which is mathematically wrong long run.
This applies to more in live NL games since games are played way deeper than online games where there is a cap to 100BB normally.

Some people say in deep stack live games, you need to raise more than the standard 3.5 times to cut down implied odds

some people say raising more than the standard..let's say to 7-8 times, is just too much and simply wrong.

I can see why raising more in deep stack will cut down implied odds, but I don't see why they say it's mathematically wrong if you do.

Please enlighten me since I can't really argue which one is right and wrong and which is mathematically right and wrong

Thanks

[Gary Stevenson]

in the deep stacked games you should probably limp all hands like the ace king or the ace queens and whatnot because you dont have a MADE hand yet and you should play it like a drawing hand.

when you've got a big wired pair, you should make the raise big enough so that no one can call correctly with a smaller wired pair to hit their set, this means you should probably open to like 25xbb or so depending on stack sizes. unless of course you've got some crazy internet kids at your table and then you can try and make the min raise preflop to sucker them in and then crush their souls when they go broke with their garbage open ended straight and flush and backdoor quads draws versus your wired aces.

of course when you've got the low pockets, like 2s or 3s or something, you should make your raises even bigger because you simply want to take down the blinds. probably make it about 40-50xbb to make sure you dont get any calls. you dont want those ace king and ace queen donkeys drawing out on you now do you?

[Boredom]

Wrong forum but this topic interests me; maybe a mod can move it somewhere.

I don't know much about this subject but one thing about your post jumps out at me; Is "cutting down implied odds" really what every player should want to do? I don't know about you but I hate shortstacks because they cut down on implied odds, and no matter how bad they are, they can't make as big a mistake as a poor player with a full stack.

Perhaps there is a point of "depth", or an assumed closeness in skill of opponents, or some other factors I am not aware of which make this analysis incomplete however. Hopefully ohters will chime in.

[Kermit]

[ QUOTE ]
in the deep stacked games you should probably limp all hands like the ace king or the ace queens and whatnot because you dont have a MADE hand yet and you should play it like a drawing hand.

when you've got a big wired pair, you should make the raise big enough so that no one can call correctly with a smaller wired pair to hit their set, this means you should probably open to like 25xbb or so depending on stack sizes. unless of course you've got some crazy internet kids at your table and then you can try and make the min raise preflop to sucker them in and then crush their souls when they go broke with their garbage open ended straight and flush and backdoor quads draws versus your wired aces.

of course when you've got the low pockets, like 2s or 3s or something, you should make your raises even bigger because you simply want to take down the blinds. probably make it about 40-50xbb to make sure you dont get any calls. you dont want those ace king and ace queen donkeys drawing out on you now do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes i wish people wouldnt give out information as valuable as this.

[Doug Funnie II]

[ QUOTE ]
in the deep stacked games you should probably limp all hands like the ace king or the ace queens and whatnot because you dont have a MADE hand yet and you should play it like a drawing hand.

when you've got a big wired pair, you should make the raise big enough so that no one can call correctly with a smaller wired pair to hit their set, this means you should probably open to like 25xbb or so depending on stack sizes. unless of course you've got some crazy internet kids at your table and then you can try and make the min raise preflop to sucker them in and then crush their souls when they go broke with their garbage open ended straight and flush and backdoor quads draws versus your wired aces.

of course when you've got the low pockets, like 2s or 3s or something, you should make your raises even bigger because you simply want to take down the blinds. probably make it about 40-50xbb to make sure you dont get any calls. you dont want those ace king and ace queen donkeys drawing out on you now do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, how does Gary not have a custom title by now?

[ocdscale]

[ QUOTE ]
in the deep stacked games you should probably limp all hands like the ace king or the ace queens and whatnot because you dont have a MADE hand yet and you should play it like a drawing hand.

when you've got a big wired pair, you should make the raise big enough so that no one can call correctly with a smaller wired pair to hit their set, this means you should probably open to like 25xbb or so depending on stack sizes. unless of course you've got some crazy internet kids at your table and then you can try and make the min raise preflop to sucker them in and then crush their souls when they go broke with their garbage open ended straight and flush and backdoor quads draws versus your wired aces.

of course when you've got the low pockets, like 2s or 3s or something, you should make your raises even bigger because you simply want to take down the blinds. probably make it about 40-50xbb to make sure you dont get any calls. you dont want those ace king and ace queen donkeys drawing out on you now do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't until the last paragraph that I understood.

lol

[AceCR9]

[ QUOTE ]
in the deep stacked games you should probably limp all hands like the ace king or the ace queens and whatnot because you dont have a MADE hand yet and you should play it like a drawing hand.

when you've got a big wired pair, you should make the raise big enough so that no one can call correctly with a smaller wired pair to hit their set, this means you should probably open to like 25xbb or so depending on stack sizes. unless of course you've got some crazy internet kids at your table and then you can try and make the min raise preflop to sucker them in and then crush their souls when they go broke with their garbage open ended straight and flush and backdoor quads draws versus your wired aces.

of course when you've got the low pockets, like 2s or 3s or something, you should make your raises even bigger because you simply want to take down the blinds. probably make it about 40-50xbb to make sure you dont get any calls. you dont want those ace king and ace queen donkeys drawing out on you now do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

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[AAismyfriend]

[ QUOTE ]
lol

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[creedofhubris]

Gary, as our resident live game master, can you next give us a strategy post about the power of the dead straddle?

Also the dark bet.