WSOP$2500 could probably played these two different...

[kenny7]

Just home from Vegas and haven't had time to post anything,have a few more hands,but these two were probably the two most interesting ones from the $2500 event.

Hand 1
25/50 blinds,so obv no real read on anyone yet.Stacks still around 5000 for everyone.

MP raises 200,I call w J/10s on button,BB calls.
Flop Jxx r,BB checks,OR bets 400,I call,BB folds,
Turn A, Check/Check
River 10 OR bets 1000, Me??

Hand 2
Blinds at 100/200,Table playing fairly tight w exeption of myself and the 2 young kids on my right. I'm a little unsure about stacksizes here,know the kid on my left is bigstack on table,but I'm either 2nd or 3rd,with only marginally less than him.

MP limps,CO,button,SB all call. I chk w 5/5 n BB.

Flop 9-5-2r SB bets 700(i think) I call,everyone else folds

Turn J, SB bets 2000, I call

River 3,SB bets 5000 Me???

think I had about 7000 behind,little unsure,know his bet didnt quite put me allin,know he had me covered.

Comments on especially turn and river on both hands appreciated,if any of you disagree with my pf,flop play,please don't hesitate to berate...

[Eagles]

Hand 1 Call

Hand 2 I probably raise the turn. As played shove river.

[JackOfSpeed]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 Call

Hand 2 I probably raise the turn. As played shove river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Mench]

hand 1 I fold. This is live and I doubt he is v betting an Ace thin, or running a bluff. I think you see KQ and a horribly played AA here a lot. 4bb tell?

hand 2 shove

[T_Mac]

lol fold? no...It's tough to see you getting any value from raising and getting him to call with worse hands. It really matters what those XX cards are...if they're really low I might just call, or at most minraise...if he pushes you'll have to fold unfortunately and you'll feel pretty dumb, or when he calls and shows a better hand. I'd probably call, and maybe minraise if he seems like a station who'll call with one pair of aces.
hand 2 shove

[2Fast]

Hand 1 - can't ever see folding and am torn between flat call and miniraise but KQ and AT-AJ seem like reasonable holdings for Villain with the MP raise so I think I just call down

Hand 2 - Geez what can he have that we're behind here? No flush or straight drawn on board...feels like he C-bet and is trying to carry on the semi-bluff to rep big hand with something like A9? I mean we're behind trip 9s and that's it - I shove for 2K more

[uclabruinz]

Why are we raising the turn in hand 2?

[THEOSU]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are we raising the turn in hand 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

why shouldn't we?

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are we raising the turn in hand 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

why shouldn't we?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm trying to come up with a range in which it makes any difference. The guy really likes his hand. There are no obvious draws we can have that explain calling or pushing on the turn.

[uclabruinz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are we raising the turn in hand 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

why shouldn't we?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because sometimes people bluff off all their chips?

EDIT: I'll clarify, I agree a big bluff on the river is rare but there is some small percentage of time that it happens, where he would have folded to your turn raise. Moreover, any hand that's good enough for him to call your turn bet with is almost certainly good enough for him to just bet the river for you. So there's really no difference. No draws to price, really. No real scare cards for him to backoff on the river. In short, raising the turn is bad.