playing a middle pair out of position 10 ft daily dbl

hamnegger · #1 06-20-2007, 04:29 PM

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $40/$80
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
hamnegger: $1880
UTG+1: $6885
MP1: $2930
MP2: $2776
MP3: $2830
CO: $1895
Button: $3660
SB: $2240
BB: $1775

Pre-flop: (9 players) hamnegger is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hamnegger calls $80 (pot was $120), 3 folds, MP3 raises to $240, 4 folds, hamnegger calls $160 (pot was $440).

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($600, 2 players)
hamnegger checks, MP3 bets $400, hamnegger ?

how do you play this? call 1 bet ? fold?mini-raise? raise a bit more?(keep in mind my stack size)
if the turn is a non 8, 10 or under do i call a second bullet? a third bullet?

scotty M · #2 06-20-2007, 04:33 PM

I've never played this high (isn't this the MTT forum?).

Without knowing the player in question, I'd have to put him on a pretty strong hand to raise an UTG limper at this level. I'd probably lay it down preflop.

I think he's got your 8's beat. I think he's got JJ+, and I'd lay it down.

Again, it's player dependant, I might raise him in this spot if I had a read.

Mingdu · #3 06-20-2007, 04:36 PM

depending on feel and how the table was playing I would shove preflop or fold to his raise ... wouldn't call

check the flop as you did or shove ...

fold to his bet or shove

Hard to play this without getting it all in with these stack sizes ...

so for me it would come down to reads

hamnegger · #4 06-20-2007, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've never played this high (isn't this the MTT forum?).

it says ring game but thats just how the converter works. its a low buy in mtt

FortunaMaximus · #5 06-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Donk flop for 320. Smallish PF, HU, good spot for it.

Too few turns can turn moumentum for you significantly. If he flatcalls, it should go ck-bet-shove or shove. Very rarely a c/f but does happen.

If he raises flop, it's a bad coin to flip.

As played, fold. If you're gonna flatcall it, same on safe/goot turns as above.

scotty M · #6 06-20-2007, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it says ring game but thats just how the converter works. its a low buy in mtt

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I was wondering why the stacks where so short. I haven't been around here for awhile. Knowing that it's a small buy in tournament changes my opinion on the hand. I'd shove on the flop.

omg im l337 · #7 06-20-2007, 06:54 PM

I would fold after his raise pre-flop. Calling with a little more than 1/7th of your stack hoping to flop trips isn't a good idea. The right amount should be 5% of your stack, tops.

Sherman · #8 06-20-2007, 06:58 PM

I shove. It sounds dumb because you don't win anything from hands that you are ahead of and always lose to hands that you are behind, but it is the only way to protect your hand if you are ahead.

Basically, this is a barely ahead/way behind situation because even if we are ahead, villain probably has at least 6 outs. So, if we just call, we might get more value out of hands that we are ahead of, but we also let those hands draw for free (at least on the turn if he so chooses to do so after our check). Also, too many cards can come that cause us to fold the turn/river anyway.

You have to protect your hand if you are ahead. If you are behind you are probably screwed anyway. It's shove or fold time here and if his c-bet frequency is high enough, I am shoving.

BTW, there are a few ways out of this situation, but they all must be decided PF. For example, raising PF will better define your hand and villain's range. It may also give you the c-bet edge on the flop. You could also limp/fold PF. Finally, you could limp/call and play for set value (deciding to fold any non-set flop).

In any case, now that you are here, I like a shove.

omg im l337 · #9 06-20-2007, 07:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I shove. It sounds dumb because you don't win anything from hands that you are ahead of and always lose to hands that you are behind, but it is the only way to protect your hand if you are ahead.

Basically, this is a barely ahead/way behind situation because even if we are ahead, villain probably has at least 6 outs. So, if we just call, we might get more value out of hands that we are ahead of, but we also let those hands draw for free (at least on the turn if he so chooses to do so after our check). Also, too many cards can come that cause us to fold the turn/river anyway.

You have to protect your hand if you are ahead. If you are behind you are probably screwed anyway. It's shove or fold time here and if his c-bet frequency is high enough, I am shoving.

BTW, there are a few ways out of this situation, but they all must be decided PF. For example, raising PF will better define your hand and villain's range. It may also give you the c-bet edge on the flop. You could also limp/fold PF. Finally, you could limp/call and play for set value (deciding to fold any non-set flop).

In any case, now that you are here, I like a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't calling with a lot of your stack PF to hit a set be -EV? Hitting it every 7 1/2 times with 1/7th of your stack?

hamnegger · #10 06-20-2007, 07:14 PM

i did not call preflop to flop a set. i thought there was a good chance he was playing overs. i called on the flop to see if he'd fire again. this is a common poker play. he fired and i felt he was strong. there will be times ill check raise all in on the flop. i didn;t feel it here. thats poker . i didn't release the hand until i felt confident i was beat and i din't lose too much. and i did recover to make the final table.