KK first hand of ME qualifier on tilt ($300) TROUBLE

Dawg24 · #1 06-20-2007, 10:45 AM

title gives most of the info...I am in small blind with KK blinds are 10 and 20. start with 3000 chips.

UTG raises to 60 and MP3 raises to 440...

folds to me in sb with red KK...I just call...thoughts??

UTG folds...to the flop..T910 in pot

Ah Jh 10s... my thoughts are he was protecting a pocket pair with that over bet and this cant be a good flop for him unless he has (Ak, Aj, A10, JJ, or 10 10) and I have doubts of Aj or A10 with that bet. So I lead out with a bet of 477 to see where I stand...he waits about 2 seconds and goes all in...WTF???

so I think about it and cant come up with much I beat...I am guessing 10 10 or JJ or Ak so I fold even though the pot was offering close to 2-1. I think fold was correct but was it? How close is it?

twonine29 · #2 06-20-2007, 10:49 AM

1st hand...KK...and it's raised/re-raised to you.

Just push pf, there's enough out to make it worth it if they all fold.

Mingdu · #3 06-20-2007, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just push pf

[/ QUOTE ]

CTKid · #4 06-20-2007, 11:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just push pf

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

hate this. No one is calling with JJ TT and many will fold QQ. You just make it sooo easy for your opponent to play correctly. With stacks this deep I think you played it fine, although if you plan to fold to a push I prefer a flop check once you smooth call pre. By the way I think he could easily have JT here.

Sherman · #5 06-20-2007, 11:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just push pf

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

hate this. No one is calling with JJ TT and many will fold QQ. You just make it sooo easy for your opponent to play correctly. With stacks this deep I think you played it fine, although if you plan to fold to a push I prefer a flop check once you smooth call pre. By the way I think he could easily have JT here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? He is 3-betting PF with JT? I thought his 3-betting range would be a lot tighter for the first hand of the tournament. More like JJ+,AQs+. Especially given that the OR was in EP. Anyhow, the way I look at it, he is never folding KK+ and probably rarely folding AK, QQ. And sometimes he makes a donkey call with AQ or JJ. I push PF. Just because it is a $300 buy-in doesn't mean the players are any good. Certainly there are satellites into this thing.

ThePershore · #6 06-20-2007, 12:28 PM

How often do people raise to 22x BB level 1 with JT?

I also push pf, as played fold flop 100% (also check / fold flop is prolly better, IMO the only hand he could feasibly have that you beat on the flop is QQ, barring him being literally insane).

crankalicious · #7 06-20-2007, 01:30 PM

I'd fold to his initial bet. I think a great player would think: "anybody who would go all-in on the first hand of a tournament can't be very good and I'll just take all his chips later in much more favorable situations for me."

I'm far from a great player, but tournament success is built on knowledge and patience and this whole thing reflects none of that.

Sherman · #8 06-20-2007, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold to his initial bet. I think a great player would think: "anybody who would go all-in on the first hand of a tournament can't be very good and I'll just take all his chips later in much more favorable situations for me."

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this strategy is that you might not have an opportunity to get his chips later on. Get them while you can.

Dawg24 · #9 06-20-2007, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How often do people raise to 22x BB level 1 with JT?

I also push pf, as played fold flop 100% (also check / fold flop is prolly better, IMO the only hand he could feasibly have that you beat on the flop is QQ, barring him being literally insane).

[/ QUOTE ]

I really wanted the hand to continue...the only hands I could imagine betting like that where 88+ and Ak so I guess I lead at the pot to see where I am at...I think check fold would have been the better play but I rushed my choice...I just really dont want to be the guy who goes all in on the first hand.

I am pretty sure NO chance of 10 j...maybe QK and flopped str8 but with 22bb raise I find that doubtful.

crankalicious · #10 06-20-2007, 01:58 PM

I think it's a bad play first hand of a tournament, but if that's your style, then so be it. Getting into all-in confrontations early in tournaments is a recipe for leaving early. That being said, my response to this is dictated by the fact that I travel about 45 minutes when I play, so getting up and departing after the first hand is a huge waste of my time. Recently (at a closer tourney), I had AA and QQ first hand. Went all-in both times, got knocked out on bad beats (a gut shot straight and a set). So, if inviting volatility is your style, then I'd go all-in after his raise. If not, I'd fold.