[$55) JJ - Getting checkraised with an Overpair

Niggel · #1 06-17-2007, 10:33 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t40 (10 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t2000)
Button (t2000)
SB (t2000)
BB (t2000)
UTG (t2000)
UTG+1 (t2000)
UTG+2 (t2000)
MP1 (t2000)
MP2 (t2000)
MP3 (t2000)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t40, 5 folds, Hero raises to t120, Button calls t120, 1 fold, BB calls t80, UTG calls t80.

Flop: (t500) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets t275, Button folds, BB raises to t800, UTG folds, Hero ?

PF: I didn't realize due multitabling that UTG limped in so i "openraised" 3 times the BB. Usually i would have just limped here or raised more.

Flop: I hate to call his raise here but pushing doesn't sound that smart either. What would you do? I think the flop bet is too small, but i think this is the only way to get value out of this hand.

greggg230 · #2 06-17-2007, 10:40 AM

Definitely raise on the flop - t160 is good, but as you said, you'd normally raise more, so np there.

Bet on the flop is good. I'm folding to the raise, though. It's too early to get involved in a big pot like this.

If you're going to call, though, you might as well push. Your hand isn't going to get better and if you call the flop, you call the turn; and if he bets the turn, you're going all in. Pushing will knock him off a bluff, 7, or straight draw.

normalcy · #3 06-17-2007, 11:02 AM

I was going to suggest a bigger pre-flop raise because of the limper.. maybe 4-5x so as not to give good odds to others. but you already mentioned that.

I would push all in over his raise. If you call, you leave yourself with 1080 chips for the turn and a pot that is now 2100 chips. you can call on the turn with almost any card hitting. so, might as well push now while you have fold equity. plus, i think you will find villian to have a small to mid pocket pair here a lot of the time given the preflop and flop action.

what are you behind against? 77, A4 or QQ, KK, AA right? QQ, KK, AA are not too likely given no reraise preflop. so, 77 and A4 are the only hands you are worried about and I think his range is MUCH wider than that for this play. what do you think?

RexWoo · #4 06-18-2007, 04:47 AM

I would push. You're ahead of almost everything played this way but 77/44.

MrP · #5 06-18-2007, 03:06 PM

lots of push's in his mind are 88-99. so maybe folding is best, but he wopuld prolly not shove over pair believing that u would fold 88-99
interesting hand

Lion King · #6 06-18-2007, 05:31 PM

Interesting hand. I think most people here give the $55-er on party too much credit. He can definately have a hand with a 4 in it which is not 44 or a4. Enough donks in there. I doubt whether the average villain will play a hand which beats JJ this way. But since utg is still in the hand I doubt villain will play air this way. Very confusing.

MaLiik · #7 06-18-2007, 05:58 PM

You have 4 players at the flop, why don't you check/raise? You should have the best hand with this flop. I don't think a call is that good here, he will act before you on the turn and do you think he won't push on it? Scare cards like A, K or Q could also come. (which they will roughly 25%) which will make the turn even worse to play.

He only has 80 to call for a 400 pot which gives him a bigger range of the hand. A4 is not impossible, but neither is 56s...

Niggel · #8 06-19-2007, 04:42 AM

Thanks for all the helpful answers!

@MaLiik: I think the button will too often check-behind and then the turn might destroy our hand. I really like betting here in this spot because even I've got a strong hand I am happy if I can take down the pot right here.

@Lion King: Giving too much credit to the $55-er? I guess you mean that they have a pretty loose calling range but aren't they as well pretty loose Postflop? Couldn't his Check-Raise just be a (semi-)bluff because my bet smells like weakness?

We eliminated calling here as an option. So the right play in this situation is either to PUSH or to FOLD.

I actually folded my hand because I "just" invested 395 chips and if I can get away from this hand I lost about 1/5 of my stack which means I am still in decent shape.
As longer i think about this hand and read through your comments a Push gets more reasonable and might be the right play, but I think you are not giving away a big edge by folding here, right?

Thanks!

Kevin8423 · #9 06-19-2007, 04:55 AM

I don't think villain will hardly ever have only a 7 here, probably either some 4 or some PP. Depending on how often you think it will be 88-TT compared to some 4 hand (or 44/77) you could go either way.

Also you definitley need to bet this flop and not try for a check/raise.

Lion King · #10 06-19-2007, 06:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
@Lion King: Giving too much credit to the $55-er? I guess you mean that they have a pretty loose calling range but aren't they as well pretty loose Postflop? Couldn't his Check-Raise just be a (semi-)bluff because my bet smells like weakness?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what I mean. The only problem is is utg in the hand. That's why bb isn't likely to be on total air. But a semi-bluf is definately possible, also some othe hands that you beat.