Do you ever fold an A high flush when the board doesn't pair?

cboevey · #1 06-15-2007, 07:03 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], 4[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]].
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], J[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], 8[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, SB caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (21 BB) J[[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 24.37 BB

jstill · #2 06-15-2007, 07:10 PM

eppp... i think theres probably a fold in there somewhere?

neither can be just pushing an equity edge (correctly) with a set 3betting or capping here 3 ways, and even tho people are terribly stupid and dont understand these things rite so it could be a possibility on a different 4 flush board, even a total idiot isnt 3betting or capping QQ here with no redraw vs 9cx or AKcc.

I have no idea what to put them both on tho, maybe BB is spewing with Kx not putting u stuck in the middle on the Ac, and sb flopped a flush with the 9? i think u can fold to the cap at the very least, maybe the turn 3bet by bb once ur facing 2 cold?, but im not sure i would at the table.

Oink · #3 06-15-2007, 07:14 PM

I think a turn fold after the 3-bet is fine.

At least fold the river

sharpie · #4 06-15-2007, 07:14 PM

I once folded an ace high flush live. I had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], board came T98 all [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], turn was 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something and I got check/raised 3 way, couldn't lay it down until the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hit the river. Turns out they both had straight flushes and one was sandbagging til the river.

In this hand I'd fold when the dude 3 bets. Even if one of them is overplaying the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], what does the other one have?

TheHip41 · #5 06-15-2007, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I once folded an ace high flush live. I had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], board came T98 all [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], turn was 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something and I got check/raised 3 way, couldn't lay it down until the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hit the river. Turns out they both had straight flushes and one was sandbagging til the river.

In this hand I'd fold when the dude 3 bets. Even if one of them is overplaying the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], what does the other one have?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not folding this on the turn. it's 1/2, these ppl do retarded crap all the time. Once the board pairs though, you have to fold to the river raise.

So I'm calling all 4 on the turn, and folding for 2 on the river.

sweetjazz · #6 06-15-2007, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I once folded an ace high flush live. I had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], board came T98 all [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], turn was 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something and I got check/raised 3 way, couldn't lay it down until the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hit the river. Turns out they both had straight flushes and one was sandbagging til the river.

In this hand I'd fold when the dude 3 bets. Even if one of them is overplaying the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], what does the other one have?

[/ QUOTE ]

The second time I ever played live (and this was before playing online at all, I had only played a few home games with $5 buy-ins to this point in my pokering career), I'm in the Foxwoods 4/8 game. I call a raise getting like 15-1 with 8d 7d. Flop is Kd Jd 9d, and I c/r the field and get about 3 callers. Turn is the Td giving me the STRAIGHT FLUSH. I bet out, guy calls, and a really bad player raises me. However, this guy is stupid enough to raise with the Ad here, so I decide to call down. All of a sudden the guy who called the turn bet comes alive and 3bets. This guy had only raised the nuts in the 3ish hours to this point. Then the other guy raises again. I ask the dealer if there is a bad beat jackpot, he's like "WTF?" so I assume not and muck my cards. I was too sick to watch the river action, but the guy who 4bet the turn ended up having Ad 5x or some such and exclaimed "I didn't even see the straight flush out there, I thought I had the best hand." I sheepishly remark that I folded 8d 7d and he has no clue that my hand also would have beaten his "nut" flush.

That's still my favorite hand I have ever played.

cboevey · #7 06-15-2007, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what to put them both on tho, maybe BB is spewing with Kx not putting u stuck in the middle on the Ac, and sb flopped a flush with the 9? i think u can fold to the cap at the very least, maybe the turn 3bet by bb once ur facing 2 cold?, but im not sure i would at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good reading! sb had the Jh9c and bb had Kc6c. I did think about folding at the turn 3 bet but just couldn't and decided to spew till showdown.

milesdyson · #8 06-15-2007, 09:15 PM

w/ the seen cards you have the best hand ~0% when this happens:

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], 4[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]].
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], J[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], 8[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB raises, BB 3-bets,

[/ QUOTE ]
sb is not bluffing. bb is not bluffing. so they have the Kc and 9c basically all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
The second time I ever played live (and this was before playing online at all, I had only played a few home games with $5 buy-ins to this point in my pokering career), I'm in the Foxwoods 4/8 game. I call a raise getting like 15-1 with 8d 7d. Flop is Kd Jd 9d, and I c/r the field and get about 3 callers. Turn is the Td giving me the STRAIGHT FLUSH. I bet out, guy calls, and a really bad player raises me. However, this guy is stupid enough to raise with the Ad here, so I decide to call down. All of a sudden the guy who called the turn bet comes alive and 3bets. This guy had only raised the nuts in the 3ish hours to this point. Then the other guy raises again. I ask the dealer if there is a bad beat jackpot, he's like "WTF?" so I assume not and muck my cards. I was too sick to watch the river action, but the guy who 4bet the turn ended up having Ad 5x or some such and exclaimed "I didn't even see the straight flush out there, I thought I had the best hand." I sheepishly remark that I folded 8d 7d and he has no clue that my hand also would have beaten his "nut" flush.

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf did the other guy have? just a queen? it sounds like you folded the winner...

sweetjazz · #9 06-15-2007, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
w/ the seen cards you have the best hand ~0% when this happens:

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], 4[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]].
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], J[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], 8[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB raises, BB 3-bets,

[/ QUOTE ]
sb is not bluffing. bb is not bluffing. so they have the Kc and 9c basically all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
In this hand I'd fold when the dude 3 bets. Even if one of them is overplaying the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], what does the other one have?

[/ QUOTE ]

The second time I ever played live (and this was before playing online at all, I had only played a few home games with $5 buy-ins to this point in my pokering career), I'm in the Foxwoods 4/8 game. I call a raise getting like 15-1 with 8d 7d. Flop is Kd Jd 9d, and I c/r the field and get about 3 callers. Turn is the Td giving me the STRAIGHT FLUSH. I bet out, guy calls, and a really bad player raises me. However, this guy is stupid enough to raise with the Ad here, so I decide to call down. All of a sudden the guy who called the turn bet comes alive and 3bets. This guy had only raised the nuts in the 3ish hours to this point. Then the other guy raises again. I ask the dealer if there is a bad beat jackpot, he's like "WTF?" so I assume not and muck my cards. I was too sick to watch the river action, but the guy who 4bet the turn ended up having Ad 5x or some such and exclaimed "I didn't even see the straight flush out there, I thought I had the best hand." I sheepishly remark that I folded 8d 7d and he has no clue that my hand also would have beaten his "nut" flush.

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf did the other guy have?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bad guy who four bet (capped) the turn had Ad xo. The other guy had Qd Qs. Yes, he limped preflop in EP and then just called when the pot was raised behind him and it was like 8 way. I honestly don't remember whether the river went 2 bets or 4, the guy with the Ad was definitely stupid enough to keep going. The sad thing is that it was like noon, and the guy with the Ad was not drunk or anything. Just born stupid.

The other hand I remember from that day involved me raising JJ in MP and he cold-called behind me.

Flop came J84r, I bet and a couple of people call. Turn K putting a flush draw on the board. I bet and only this guy calls. River 7 making a backdoor flush. I bet, he calls. I turn over my set of jacks, wait for the pot to be shipped to me. He turns over T9o and drags the pot. LOLOLOLOLOL

milesdyson · #10 06-15-2007, 09:23 PM

yeah see my edited post - that makes sense. i thought you were saying you folded the winner and i was just dumbfounded that the call/raise guy could have anything but the Qd.