Question for Olback/Poker Incentives Review

[Pokeraddict]

This was brought to my attention last night. On your advertising page you make the following claim.

Jan 2006 Stats:

Over 12,000 Unique Visitors
Over 200,000 Page Views

This is 400 unique IP's a day average (keep in mind a unique in a month means if they visit again that month they do not count again) and 6500 page views a day. Lets assume you have the same % return visitors as uniques as RRR does, thats over 1000 visitors a day. Using these figures your claim would imply each user has 6.5 page views per visit. This is roughly RRR's page view per visit average. The difference is that RRR has nearly 11,000 pages according to Google, your site has 12. Feel free to compare here.

PIR Google saturation

RRR Google saturation

So every visitor views over half of your site's pages? RRR visitors view .0005% of the total pages. This includes a nearly 3000 post forum where many visitors view over 100 pages during their visit. These 1000 visitors a day sure dont visit your forum. Your record is still 5 and that was nearly 4 months ago. Your forum has a total of 14 posts, 9 are yours.

Most users ever online was 5 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:14 pm


The bold is taken directly from your forum.

Lets investigate this claim further. The easiest way is to use Alexa to compare page views between our sites.

Compare RRR and PIR

Although I will be the first to admit Alexa is not perfect it is the best way to compare and the margin of error is nowhere near the gap. By looking at this graph I think it is safe to say RRR page views are at least 30 times the PIR page views. By using this formula and your claims RRR had an average of 200,000 page views a day in January. Without publicly stating too much site info I can say this was 50 times our busiest January day and about 15 times our record day ever which was a few days after Party and the skins got divorced.

Since your site has zero search engine placement on keywords such as Google page 9 for "rakeback", not in top 500 for "rake back" and even the worthless key phrases you hype on the same page as this traffic claim you are either nowhere to be found or much lower then you were on the date over a month ago you ran your searches. RRR is #1 on most of the searches listed on that page and I can assure you I have never seen most of these phrases show in my logs as searches from Google. The ones I have seen would average less then once a month. As a matter of fact you admit in another forum you have gone nowhere in Google.

Rentacoder post

This is the same forum I had your request for a coder before you ever launched removed due to its obvious copyright violations. Rentacoder agreed with me and removed your post for a coder. I am sure you remember this as well as remember emailing me posing as an affiliate attempting to pry confidential information on my website multiple times.

Since this forum is the only place you advertise besides spam how do you get all of these visitors? You sure do not get them from search engines. I am going to have to call you out that these claims are impossible and I think I have given all the proof that is needed to state this publicly.

I have tried to be at peace and I felt we were. You know that I object, as well as many others, to the garbage posts made in this forum only to spam your link (many posts might as well say 'I dont know <link>' and others are obviously wrong answers) and many of the other affiliates, even your advertisers, have come to me over and over complaining about your spam in this forum. This not only lowers your own credibility, but lowers the value of the forum and lowers all advertiser's value on our advertising. If the forum is nothing but spam players will not visit as often, if at all and sure will not support the advertisers or the forum owners.

I know to some this may look like the big guy picking on the little guy but I am in a position where I must speak up on behalf of affiliates as well as myself. In fact in a poll 91% of affiliates that answered (10 of 11) voted I make a post in this forum on this topic. I am not just here for the players, I am here to look out for affiliates as well and these claims are basically a way to scam affiliates into advertising on PIR.

I guess I have put you in a position where you either admit this was a lie, an "oversight" or where you need to prove your massive amount of traffic you claim. I cant imagine you can prove the traffic claim, the affiliates advertising on your site tell me they get only about 1-2% of the click throughs from PIR as they do RRR.

How can affiliates and players trust you or your site if you have been proven to be a spammer and have such obvious lies on your site?

[Olback]

The traffic stats that I have quoted on my advertising page are accurate. They are from my hosting stats program. You queried me on these in the past and I do not see why I am still being queried on them now.

I do not think that i should have to prove this but below are screenshots of my stats from my host. Hopefully after seeing those stats a retraction and apology will be forecoming from you.

[Pokeraddict]

You seemed to have stepped over a few key points. First I think anyone in the business knows your logs are not real traffic. You do not have this traffic in real poker players. I hope you will take the time to address these questions, your screenshot of stats that were not consistant are in no way a real answer. You have days where there are virtually no visitors, then all at a sudden you have what looks like 100x more traffic for a few days. If your site is getting 200,000 legit page views in a month it would look more smooth then days that are dead.

I hope you will answer the following to help clear things up.

Please explain how on January 1 you had 68 visitors view 1052 pages. Your site does not even have this many pages to view. My sites average is half this per user and I literally have nearly 1000 times the content.

Are each and every one of your visitors viewing every page on your site every visit twice?

Do you hit refresh over and over when you visit?

Why is your Alexa rating so poor when you have all this "real" traffic?

Either......

1. You buy untargeted bulk traffic (possibly from non english speaking countries as that is how most bulk traffic programs go. I would LOVE to see what countries these alleged visitors are from)

2. You log in through a proxy to inflate these stats.

3. These visitors/page views are from bots

No one with any brains would believe your site generates this amount of traffic in real players.

Why do none of your advertisers benefit from any of this traffic?

Why does your forum have 5 posts that arent yours in 6 months with all this traffic?

How does this traffic view more pages per visit then your site even has?

What about the number of people who click, see your first page, and leave? Now one of these other visitors has to view nearly triple your number of content pages to make up for that to average it out.

What happened on January 6, 9 and 10? Why are these page view numbers probably 100 times more then Jan 1, 2, 3, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 31? Is this the result of a bot? Bulk traffic purchases? Between Jan 10-15 you didnt post at 2+2 at all, I am guessing you were away from the computer and unable to juice your stats on those days. Since I am something like 16-17 hours behind you the dates fit perfectly. I feel sure you will use the excuse that you were not able to post and promote your site but I am sure your posts arent generating 6500 page views a day.

Without any decent keywords in Google and virtually no advertising where is all this traffic originating?

Why did you not address any of the spam issues? What about the deceptive emails/spam sent to affiliates on RRR over and over? The Rentacoder copyright violation?

[ThisIsTheNuts]

I am not an expert on these things but I have asked for John's (PokerAddict's) assistance in analyzing my site traffic on several occasions and he has always been willing to offer his time for free in helping me out with it.

Through that process it was obvious to me that John has a great deal of knowledge in the area he is asking questions about in this post.

They seem to be fair questions he is asking.

If site traffic stats are promoted they should be relevant. If his points are on target simply clarify the stats.

There are a lot of things about site traffic data that confused me initially. It is not a simple or intuitive process to arrive at meaningful data in that regard.

[Olback]

John,

I am not going to get into a debate about this in any forum, yet alone a public one. My stats are what they are. The traffic is real and from real people. Whether or not you believe me is your own business.

You have been obessed with me and my site every since I planned on starting it. You seem obessed with trying to find holes in my site and in the traffic it generates. I have a huge file at home with every email and post you have ever made about me.

As I have mentioned before, i feel i have been more then fair with you in answering questions but I am not going to answer any of those questions in a public forum, when your sole purpose is to try to show people how superior your site is. I am not going to answer your questions when your sole purpose is attacking me and my site.

I would just appreciate it if you could please stop hassling me about this and get use to the fact that I have built a site that can produce similar traffic to your site.

You always like to question me on everything i do, from who i list to the content of my site, my traffic stats and the like. I have given you my stats from Jan and they match the figures i stated on my website. Alot of people would not hand over this information especially on a public forum. I have never questioned you on your stats and I have never asked to see them, I just believe you. Yet you seem to want proof and then when the proof is provided you dismiss it and try to justify how it is not as good as yours.

From day 1 you have assumed I am a scammer and that i use spam and other methods to promote my site. That is defamation, but again I let it go thinking that it will just go away and it does for a few weeks before something else comes out. I am just sick and tired of it.

I just want you to please stay out of my business. I have mentioned this numerous times in emails to you and I am now asking you on a public forum to please do so.

[Sniper]

I know the answer!... his expanded January traffic is ummmm.... my fault [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Remember this post ... note the pickup in traffic immediately following that post... everyone must have been searching his entire site over and over looking for the ummmm incentives [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I knew my posts were good, but didn't realize they had the ability to drive that much traffic... thanks for the great analysis! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Pokeraddict]

In other words you are busted. If your traffic figures were legit you wouldnt side step some 30 questions that have been brought to your attention that are very legit questions. I'm glad you posted January 1 stats that show 1000 page views. I think that proves my point that something is fishy. You needed one day at 12,000 just to offset that one. No way one day, even a holiday, could be 15% of your average traffic with such huge numbers.

I dont know about me being obsessed with your site. I have made it obvious your posing as an affiliate to try and pry info from me in April was sleazy just as when I caught you trying to hire a site scraper at Rentacoder to steal my site's content. I notice you have not even tried to deny either, not ever. Dont worry, I can prove they happened in case you decide to deny them.

As for questioning affiliates on your site. You list whoever you want, when I felt we were at peace I let you know of Rakeprovider.com before they were even listed on your site. They had copied a large affiliates site word for word on multiple pages. If someone is going to steal content then they are an thief in my mind. Any webmaster that creates their own content will agree. No one ever caught site scraping will ever be on RRR and I figured you would think same way, instead you listed them at the top the following month. Your current #1, well, I'm not even going to go there.

You have not built a site that can produce similiar traffic, dont insult me or the rest of the forum. You are nowhere to be found on virtually every Google rakeback/poker related search, you dont even have any backlinks in Google and they just updated them this weekend, you dont advertise anywhere but here and a spam post in a another forum here and there.

PIR's ZERO backlinks on Google

I have proven 100 times over your figures are flawed in some way. I cant imagine there is even a shadow of a doubt to anyone involved in the rakeback affiliate business that your numbers are grossly inflated. Your refers to your advertisers are very low, your forum has 5 posts that arent yours, your traffic on your site drops when you arent around to hit reload, according to Alexa I have at least 30 times your traffic (RRR has over 200,000 page views a day? I wish), your visitors on average view nearly every page on your site which is obviously ridiculous and all you want to do is make this about me.

I would have let you be but when I saw that ridiculous claim last night it was time to bring it out. I am not going to sit and watch people who are in this industry be blatantly lied to and spammed by someone claiming to be a watchdog in their industry, you dont even delist people that have obviously stolen their entire site's content when it is proven to you.

I have received messages from 25-30 applauding me for letting all of this out. You are not fooling anyone, I was at least expecting you to say you bought the traffic or they were bots by now. Trying to claim these are 6500 page views a day clicked through from this forum, your blog or your Pokerforums.org spam is crazy and these are the only three places they could have really come from as link finders only come up with links from those sites that are poker related and not spidered with PIR.

Feel free to ignore this thread, it will die on its own but no one will forget you getting caught making these claims and getting caught up so bad you will not even answer the questions.

Around half of the advertisers on my site have come to me in one way or another supporting me and applauding me for coming out with this thread, I wonder why........

You are right, your stats are your business even though you had no problem misrepresenting yourself to try and get mine last year, at least I am openly stating who I am and why they need to come out.

By side stepping all of this overwhelming proof your silence makes the answers obvious to me and others.

Maybe I did not have the right to publicly debate this but there is overwhelming support among those involved in the business that I bring all of this dishonesty out, and I am glad I did.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
I know the answer!... his expanded January traffic is ummmm.... my fault [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Remember this post ... note the pickup in traffic immidiately following that post... everyone must have been searching his entire site over and over looking for the ummmm incentives [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I knew my posts were good, but didn't realize they had the ability to drive that much traffic... thanks for the great analysis! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO Thanks for the great laugh, I needed it.

Who would have known that pic would bring in 6500+ page views a day. Just think how much traffic you would generate if you made one for each rakeback site. We would all be millionaires overnight.

[Olback]

[ QUOTE ]

I have received messages from 25-30 applauding me for letting all of this out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok i would like to just say 1 thing. If anyone has any problems with me or any of my business that I run please could they contact me directly instead of contacting John or anyone else. This includes concerns over my content, advertising policy or anything. I feel this is a better way to handle things and will make sure any issues are resolved quickly and effectively.

I can be contacted via email at:

webmaster@pokerincentivesreview.com

I will then do my best to answer any of your questions.

[Sniper]

From: Sniper@2+2
To: Olback <webmaster@pokerincentivesreview.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2006 3:45AM
Subject: concerns over... anything

Why did you change your avatar? Jessica was a much better choice!

Thanks for your consideration.