Do I bet this flop?

APipeDream · #1 06-15-2007, 10:17 AM

Don't really need too much analysis here. I just want to know if you generally bet this flop (and how much). I was just moved to the table 2 orbits ago. After 20 hands Villain has played 4 hands, raising preflop 3 of them. Have not seen a shown hand. No history between us, first pot together.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP1 (t4255)
MP2 (t2205)
CO (t2615)
Button (t11640)
Hero (t6920)
BB (t12860)
UTG (t9250)
UTG+1 (t6010)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Button calls t200, Hero raises to t800, 1 fold, Button calls t600.

Flop: (t1775) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

Mingdu · #2 06-15-2007, 10:49 AM

I c/c the flop ... hope he has an ace

bet the turn if he checks the flop, let him continue to lead if he does ... when he played hands was he aggressive?

APipeDream · #3 06-15-2007, 10:57 AM

He always put in a c-bet when raising preflop, but folded to a push on one, and other players folded on other hands. Nothing past the turn.

Cornell Fiji · #4 06-15-2007, 02:48 PM

Hero bets 1250-1500.

You want to give him the illusion of fold equity if he bluff shoves (putting you on KK obv) but you want to make sure that you stack an ace. PPs will often float here more than they should.

Check is not terrible but if he bets you have to call and check the turn which he will check behind. Then if you fire at the river it might look too strong.

You can't really play this hand wrong because you are so short. I lead at it though

edit: You don't check to get value when he has an ace. You bet if you hope he has an ace. You check to get value when he does not have an ace.

SonofDjugashvili · #5 06-15-2007, 02:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero bets 1250-1500.

You want to give him the illusion of fold equity if he bluff shoves (putting you on KK obv) but you want to make sure that you stack an ace.

Check is not terrible but if he bets you have to call and check the turn which he will check behind. Then if you fire at the river it might look too strong.

You can't really play this hand wrong because you are so short. I lead at it though

[/ QUOTE ]

I like, but is your bet not a wee bit large? I would wait a few seconds and bet 1000 exactly, like saying "gosh, I hate that A, but I have to take a shot at it because I raised". Hope he either has the A or wants to represent one and push you off. If all he has is KJ or 66 you are not getting any money anyhow, unless you can sell the weak c/b line and get him to bluff.

Cornell Fiji · #6 06-15-2007, 03:15 PM

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I like, but is your bet not a wee bit large?

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The bigger your bet the more it looks like a bluff.

Even the fish know that strong means weak.

If we had 7k-8k behind on the flop I am betting pot every time.

Mingdu · #7 06-15-2007, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You don't check to get value when he has an ace. You bet if you hope he has an ace. You check to get value when he does not have an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

This argument is why this is a check on the flop

You get value whether he has an ace or not ... and we hope he has an ace because we will get more value

MJBuddy · #8 06-15-2007, 03:06 PM

I'm checking. Unless I have a recent string of CBets and a lot of call-downed bluffs, I'm checking all day.

And if a heart comes on a turn, I'm checking again...and if he bets, hollywood and call and lead any river hard.

You need to make sure he sees all 5 cards. It's only then that he can trick himself into calling a river. And I mean to overbet the river to make him think you're running a horrible bluff. ESPECIALLY if a third heart doesn't make it to the board, because he will say, "hah, busted flush draw" and call with anything.

Cornell Fiji · #9 06-15-2007, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't check to get value when he has an ace. You bet if you hope he has an ace. You check to get value when he does not have an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

This argument is why this is a check on the flop

You get value whether he has an ace or not ... and we hope he has an ace because we will get more value

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the argument to check the flop. But when you bet the flop and he decides to bluff you double up. When you check the flop and he decides to bluff you pick up a handful of chips before he shuts down.

Also, if you check the flop you risk not getting all the chips in when he does have an ace... and that would certaintly be a waste.

I think it is marginal either way though.

cheburashka · #10 06-15-2007, 10:56 AM

I check for sure.

Villain seems TAGy, which means that A8s-AJs is a big part of the range of what he would call from the button with. Your raise from SB could be read as medium to big pair, or maybe AKs or AQs, depending on your image.

If he thinks you have AK or AQ, you're not getting any action no matter what, and a check might convince him you have a medium pair (which, in fact, you do). But to me, a bet from you for sure means that you have AK or AQ and that you don't want any chance of someone sucking out a heart draw on you.