HELP

[mdkrahn]

So my friend and I can't agree on this hand.
I tell him he played it like a downie,
he disagrees.

Villain: habitual bluffer, has seen a bunch of bluffs from hero prior ot this hand.


1/3 @ Caesars
Hero opens to 10 with TT in MP3, villain in CO or Btn calls,
all fold.

Flop K62r: hero checks, villain checks
Turn 9: hero bets 20, villain raises to 65, hero reraises to 165

Now obviously flop is retarded.
But the street in question is the turn.
He says he puts villain on a bluff, he's been at the table, and he has a read. I haven't been there long, but I agree as well, as that line is fishy as hell.
I tell him if he thinks bluff, then call, don't 3bet,
you turn your hand into a bluff.
He disagrees adamantly.

Thoughts?


Edit: removed actions after hero 3bet.

[shpanko]

If he's checking the flop I'd like a turn check as well. The reason behind checking flop or turn is to give him a chance to bluff a worse hand because we don't fold out any better hands.

That said I'd usually just c-bet the flop and take it from there.

You are correct in your thinking that if your friend thinks that the villain was bluffing then your friend should just call and c/c a safe river

[Casper05]

why are you bluffing the turn?

[Lego05]

The turn 3bet looks pretty bad to me.

[The White Rabbit]

Assuming his turn raise is a bluff very often, bluff 3-betting is obv. +EV. Whether it's more +EV than calling down entirely depends on how well villain's river play is (and you need a good read here, since the most likely scenario is you're either gonna pay off way too often or fold the best hand way too often).

Against the general opponent though, I think calling turn and folding the river to a big bet maximizes your EV.

[orange]

i probably check the turn again if he's an aggro.

also, if you think he's bluffing the turn, it looks like a pretty clear call to me.

[early325]

bet the flop, but if flop = check then turn should = check.

3-betting turn is pretty bad. Just call.

[The White Rabbit]

wtf @ everyone saying 3-betting turn is bad.

Assuming (!) villains range is heavily polarized towards bluffs, it's pretty clear that 3-betting the turn is +EV.

Without a good read on villain's tendencies on different rivers, however, just calling the turn will very often induce you to make an expensive mistake on the river.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf @ everyone saying 3-betting turn is bad.

Assuming (!) villains range is heavily polarized towards bluffs, it's pretty clear that 3-betting the turn is +EV.

Without a good read on villain's tendencies on different rivers, however, just calling the turn will very often induce you to make an expensive mistake on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yea whenever most of someone's range is a bluff raising them is +ev, but isn't calling here more +ev.




And if you checked the flop you should have checked the turn.

[mdkrahn]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf @ everyone saying 3-betting turn is bad.

Assuming (!) villains range is heavily polarized towards bluffs, it's pretty clear that 3-betting the turn is +EV.

Without a good read on villain's tendencies on different rivers, however, just calling the turn will very often induce you to make an expensive mistake on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


it's obviously not -EV to 3bet the turn if his range is heavily polarized towards a bluff,
but I contend that calling is more +EV.
He's likely drawing thin, and calling allows him to fire another barrel, while 3betting allows him to continue only with better hands.