NL "styles of succesfull players"

[ricksonbyarmbar]

hello Im new to these forums, and Im not sure if this is the best section to post this, but I think it may jsut fit.

Every player is known to have there own style and what not, but I as of late ( 2-3 years mabey) the very successful players all seem to have a Hyper-Aggro style. ( P.Antonius, Ivey, Gus Hansen, D.Negreanu and guys from the online world such as Sbrugby, Durrrr, Bad_ip, ozzy87) is this style the best for making a big profit in NL?

NL is a game of traps ( or so it has been said) however it seems that the only players who really uitlize a slowplaying/trapping game are Hellmuth and Johhny Chan everyone else seems to be generally very aggresivley betting at pots looking to bluff people out, while Hellmuth and chan seem to be inducing these bluffs.

If any one out there has a theory as to why the trapping style is fading and the hyper-aggro style is becoming the predominat style of successfull players ?

[LadyWrestler]

I think this seems to be the case because late NL tournament play with high blinds tends to favor aggressive play. This is what is televised for the most part.

I would like to see them show some of these "aggressive" players at the first table they played at in the tourney. I think we would see a different style of play. That would probably be too boring for entertainment oriented TV.

[ricksonbyarmbar]

well what you have said does make sence, however i wasnt speaking in the context of tournaments, rather general reputation, Poker After Dark is a good example of reputations because even at the beggining ( and PAD has a slow structue) players true styles shined, with Johnny chan limping QQ and 99 at the beggining, and even limping AA at the mid-late stages, so this trapping style of his showed througout the broadcast ( he was on PAd twice that I remeber) and even in High stakes poker he was slowplaying alot, while Gus and Daniel were betting and raising with thier usuall range of what seemed to be any suited connector ( even 3 gappers), and any two blackjack cards and suited aces. Im also curious as to why this re-occuring theme is popping up with online legends, who are all known for thier hyper-aggro play, I have never heard of a great high stakes NL cash player online praised for his great traps

[wizexel22]

I'm new to the forum also...but here's my two cents.

I compare the TAG, LAG, HAG styles to different styles in fighting. The best were strikers, till different forms of jujitsu were dominating, then came the shoot boxers, etc etc etc (I'm just a casual MMA fan so forgive me if I'm not accurate on the phases) The point being, different styles of fighting have become dominant, but only until the rest of the field learns to counteract. Now fighters are so well rounded on average though.
I think the same for poker, I think for a long time the TAG players that could play tricky ruled the poker world. But with the explosion of poker this last 5-7 years or so, poker has changed. The last few years this hyper aggressive style has seemed to dominate. However I think its just a matter of time before people on average can adjust.
At this point, I do think the LAGs will beat a TAG player of same skill. But I think at this point, its really more important HOW GOOD you are as opposed to what style you play. The best players can change their gears easily and so they will use whatever style they see fit for that situation. A HAG player may be running a table over with his loose aggression, but a very skillful TAG player may end up taking all his chips by the end of the night. A HAG player may run over all the newbies and scared money in cash games, and its definitely an advantage in tournaments where people are scared to bust out. But in the games I play in ($500+ NL) the HAGs usually can't last. Of course, if Gus Hansen sits at my table he'll probably run everyone over again.

Point being, the better poker players win $ despite their general playing style.

[allingator]

A well played hyper aggressive style is the most profitable, however, it is subject to the highest amount of variance as well. I think HAG is a style of play people can experiment with once they have mastered the more straight forward TAG styles of the game and are winning players in that context. LAG and HAG are higher levels of play and require a greater amount of skill to be played successfully.

[ricksonbyarmbar]

Thats a good point you have there, the idea that generall styles are changing as the game changes, and the mma example worked wel lfor this. I always try to reminde myself that its about making good decisions over a long period of time, then I think, mabey the decision to raise is correct much more often than most would think hence the Hyper-Aggro players especailly online. I doubt Durrr and SBrugby would of went from 50NL to 60,000 Nl in less than 2 years playing TAG, I jsut dont see it happening.

[wizexel22]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a good point you have there, the idea that generall styles are changing as the game changes, and the mma example worked wel lfor this. I always try to reminde myself that its about making good decisions over a long period of time, then I think, mabey the decision to raise is correct much more often than most would think hence the Hyper-Aggro players especailly online. I doubt Durrr and SBrugby would of went from 50NL to 60,000 Nl in less than 2 years playing TAG, I jsut dont see it happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's why I said if two players skill level is the same, the HAG style has some inherent advantages, due to the relentless aggression. Also, when playing people with inferior playing skills, the HAG style can extract much more money than a TAG. And so if you are a great HAG, then yes, while they have more variance, with their skill they can make huge profits on a given night.

I am slowly loosening up my game also, but at the same time I play TAG most of the time as I am basically playing poker to support myself. So my goal is to win on a consistent basis with less variance. But I agree, if you don't have the financial constraints, and you have the skill, HAG seems the way to go. But keep in mind most great HAGs have extremely good hand reading skills and people reading skills. While applying relentless pressure, they know better than to chase without decent implied odds at the least, and they also know how to get out of a hand if they feel like the pot can't be won. Guys like Gus Hansen actually do all the math and have a method to their madness.
Ah, maybe I'm just hatin cuz I'm not good enough to play the HAG style yet haha.

[AbreuTime]

There was a thread a couple months ago about a guy who had success playing flexibly aggressive, or F.A.G., at low limits. I don't know if that would work at high limits.

I do know this: unlimited Texas Hold 'em rewards bold aggressive plays.

[ricksonbyarmbar]

Aggressinves is one thing but Hyper-agro is differant re-raiseing with small suited connectors and small pairs, small aces and even complete air lke j5 and k4. how do u know where ur at in a hand when someones re-raisng range is that wide.

Whatever ever happend to NL being a game of traps?
I know that these guys do trap but not i nthe conventional sence. I played like this for abit, and I know first hand that after ppl see you bet a everyflop, whenn u flop quads and bet at it, you get paid and your oppenants are left in shock, because no one ever gives u any credit.

[PantsOnFire]

Everything depends on your opponents. You can't play a trap game against some players because they can be in a hand with any two cards and you don't have a read on them. You can't play hyper aggressive against players who won't fold. If your opponents aren't really paying attention to your play or trying hard to read you, then your plays go unnoticed for the most part.

When pros play pros, they mix it up since they know their opponents are sophisticated and can do all sorts of things like bet with air or lay down a set.

The players most of us play against are capable of anything from solid straightforward play to head-scratching moves, so sophisticated play is usually a waste of poker chest pounding since it falls on deaf ears.

If you can show aggressiveness and trapping in different situations, you would probably be a tought opponent (well tough to people who are actually paying attention).