c/f ?

Lucky_River · #1 06-12-2007, 01:01 PM

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero

JJH3984 · #2 06-12-2007, 01:03 PM

raise preflop. c/f is bad as played. bet.

KitCloudkicker · #3 06-12-2007, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. c/f is bad as played. bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

StrictlyStrategy · #4 06-12-2007, 01:07 PM

Are most flops bet in these games? I'd assume so and C/R.

Lucky_River · #5 06-12-2007, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. c/f is bad as played. bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

why do you want raise preflop? QJs is a very good drawing hand, but for sure not the best at the moment, and I'm not able to get a free card since I'm oop all the time.

JJH3984 · #6 06-12-2007, 02:51 PM

You have an equity edge against limpers ranges. Big suited cards are awesome to raise with in multiway pots.

ecooke · #7 06-12-2007, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and I'm not able to get a free card since I'm oop all the time

[/ QUOTE ]
This is spot on dude. You can pop with QJs in a multiway pot from late position but there's not much equity to raise with from the BB.
As for the flop, big equity change between flop and turn... I like to check/call the flop and bet/raise the turn to a safe card.

KitCloudkicker · #8 06-12-2007, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and I'm not able to get a free card since I'm oop all the time

[/ QUOTE ]
This is spot on dude. You can pop with QJs in a multiway pot from late position but there's not much equity to raise with from the BB.
As for the flop, big equity change between flop and turn... I like to check/call the flop and bet/raise the turn to a safe card.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think your definition of equity is a little off

ecooke · #9 06-12-2007, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think your definition of equity is a little off

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wrong all the time. But if you're going to call me out at least tell me why.

KitCloudkicker · #10 06-12-2007, 08:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think your definition of equity is a little off

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wrong all the time. But if you're going to call me out at least tell me why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot equity is your expected value from the pot. Suppose you have a 20% chance to win the pot. There is $100 in the pot. Thus, your pot equity is $20 (.20 *100).

why does this matter? with your QJs, against 4 limpers average hand ranges, you will win the pot more than "your fair share." your "fair share" is the total amt of money in the pot divided by the amt that you yourself contributed to it. thus for 4 limpers your fair share is 4 sb (limpers) + 1 sb (small blind) + 1 sb (you) = 1/6 = 17%. your QJs, the majority of times, will win this hand more than 17% of the time, especially against people limping with trash like K8o or A5o. this means that if everyone puts in more money preflop, you make money off of them. in turn, the people who will win the pot less than than 17% of the time are losing money with this play - specifically, to the folks who will win it more than 17% of the time.

therefore, we raise.

you might ask, well doesn't that mean that if, for example, the button raises, we should 3 bet our QJs? Unfortunately, no, because:

1) we cant be sure all limpers would call a 3B, but we can be sure they would call one more bet.
2) if the PFR has a monster hand like AA/KK/QQ the chance that we will have 17% equity is a whole lot smaller.