|
|
#1
06-11-2007, 12:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
How's my line?
Home game - first blind level (BB is t20). UTG+1 (t920) Hero (t1000) Preflop: Hero is in BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG folds, UTG+1 raises t50, MP1 calls t50, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls t50, SB folds, Hero raises t170, UTG+1 calls t120. Flop: (t440) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](2 players) Hero bets t150, UTG+1 calls t150. Turn: (t740) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players) Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t200, Hero calls t200. River: (t1140) Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](2 players) Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t400 (All-in), Hero folds. 
|
|
#3
06-11-2007, 12:16 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
pf: 250-300
flop depends. sometimes i bet 1/2 pot, sometimes i just c/f. JJ AA AK AQ AJ all have us beat. QQ is the only possible holding we are ahead of right now, when he called the 3bet pf against a reasonable player. as played shut down after flopcall! i really really don't like turn&river here.
|
|
#4
06-11-2007, 06:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
I had a tough time folding the turn getting 4.5:1 with likely 11 outs. What about c/r all-in on the turn?
|
|
#5
06-11-2007, 10:34 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
you cannot fold the turn, period. i agree with other posters about raising more preflop. i also like checking this flop in this exact situation. if you want more advice from me i need a better description of UTG+1's play.
|
|
#6
06-11-2007, 01:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
This is a classic example of small mistakes making us spew huge amounts of chips.
Raise more/push preflop. Bad players can't fold any Ace, good players seldom fold big Aces. Gotta make 'em pay to crack ur Cowboys. Half the time I would lead flop 1/2 pot bet and shut down if he calls/raises. Other half the time I check fold. As played, that [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the turn is just enough to sucker us in further. Probably fold turn if villian is average/bad. If villian is a good player I probably semi bluff check/shove to rep a made flush since u know he doesn't have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He may lay down many hands that have us beat and if he doesn't we still have outs.
|
|
#7
06-11-2007, 01:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
[ QUOTE ]
This is a classic example of small mistakes making us spew huge amounts of chips. Raise more/push preflop. Bad players can't fold any Ace, good players seldom fold big Aces. Gotta make 'em pay to crack ur Cowboys. Half the time I would lead flop 1/2 pot bet and shut down if he calls/raises. Other half the time I check fold. As played, that [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the turn is just enough to sucker us in further. Probably fold turn if villian is average/bad. If villian is a good player I probably semi bluff check/shove to rep a made flush since u know he doesn't have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He may lay down many hands that have us beat and if he doesn't we still have outs. [/ QUOTE ] we are getting almost 5:1 with 11 outs, and worst case scenario 7 outs against only a made flush when we can see both the A and K of hearts. folding turn is horrible.
|
|
#8
06-11-2007, 01:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
Your big mistake was the preflop raise size. Think about the potential flop action if you get called by the original raiser, which is the most likely scenario for there being a flop. You will be OOP to the original raiser and will get absolutely no chance to read his hand. What are you most likely to want to do on the flop? Especially with two callers in between, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making it 350 preflop, laying a little worse than 2:1 for the raiser to call and setting up a pot-sized flop bet. Also, you are not giving you opponent proper implied odds to call with Ax even if you shove every flop.
As played, I probably check the flop but shove that turn.
|
|
#9
06-11-2007, 01:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
[13:38] durron597: u like shoving the turn against a calling station? [13:38] durron597: in the $20 home game hand [13:38] durron597: thats why i asked for description of villian [13:39] Slim Pickens: I don't really like shoving the turn but your hand is too valuable at that point not to. [13:39] durron597: i disagree [13:39] durron597: if he calls with any ace folds any worse hands i like checking better [13:39] Slim Pickens: wh.. he has KJ there a lot [13:39] Slim Pickens: or QQ [13:39] durron597: sure but QQ is gonna fold [13:40] durron597: i only like shoving if he folds like A9 [13:40] Slim Pickens: Then you buy out his 5% pot equity. If he's only ever calling when he wins then having him fold is fine. [13:41] Slim Pickens: I hate the preflop reraise amount so much. It sets up all this nastiness. [13:41] durron597: total agree [13:42] Slim Pickens: I just hate where you check the turn OOP and he shoves for 600 into 740. [13:43] Slim Pickens: You're getting a little better than 2:1 and your hand might be good unimproved. [13:43] durron597: well [13:44] durron597: lets say he calls a shove with any ace or flush or set but shoves with QhQx, QhJx, QxJh, JhTx, JxTh, and TxTh [13:44] durron597: then its obv better to check [13:45] Slim Pickens: Checking the flop is really where it's at. [13:45] durron597: i agree [13:45] durron597: no, i disagree [13:45] durron597: raising more preflop is really where it's at [13:45] Slim Pickens: Well, yeah for sure [13:45] durron597: checking the flop is good but the important thing is preflop [13:46] Slim Pickens: .Let's say the stacks were deeper and the preflop raise amount had been correct, then I check the flop. Very few unsophisticated players instanly check behind with an ace there. [13:46] durron597: ya
|
|
#10
06-11-2007, 02:21 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: How\'s my line ($20 home game)?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is a classic example of small mistakes making us spew huge amounts of chips. Raise more/push preflop. Bad players can't fold any Ace, good players seldom fold big Aces. Gotta make 'em pay to crack ur Cowboys. Half the time I would lead flop 1/2 pot bet and shut down if he calls/raises. Other half the time I check fold. As played, that [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the turn is just enough to sucker us in further. Probably fold turn if villian is average/bad. If villian is a good player I probably semi bluff check/shove to rep a made flush since u know he doesn't have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He may lay down many hands that have us beat and if he doesn't we still have outs. [/ QUOTE ] we are getting almost 5:1 with 11 outs, and worst case scenario 7 outs against only a made flush when we can see both the A and K of hearts. folding turn is horrible. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think I'd call it horrible. I don't have 'stove here to run the numbers but IF all 11 outs are clean we have at best 22% chance and getting almost 5-1 makes this call marginal. If we have as few as 7 outs this would be a bad call. I usually approach these situations with more aggression when I think I'm beat but could still hit the best hand. I want villian to have to make the tough decision, hence the check/shove. As stated, the PF raise was the problem that started it all and reads would affect decisions.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
