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#1
06-09-2007, 08:21 PM
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My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
Hmm. Sensible leftists (i.e., credible sources) are sharply questioning the idea of human caused CO2 disaster.
Alexander Cockburn says geologists are being ignored in the warming debate, and they are unconvinced that warming is manmade. Roundup of scientific heterodoxy 
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#2
06-09-2007, 09:20 PM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Sensible leftists (i.e., credible sources) are sharply questioning the idea of human caused CO2 disaster. Alexander Cockburn says geologists are being ignored in the warming debate, and they are unconvinced that warming is manmade. Roundup of scientific heterodoxy [/ QUOTE ] Are you saying Algore is not a sensible leftist?
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#4
06-09-2007, 10:43 PM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
It's pretty easy to pick apart almost every one of Cockburn's 'claims'.
Specifically on his assertion that CO2 levels lag behind temperature rises: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...2-in-ice-cores and http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...-temp-and-co2/ And on why water vapor is being 'ignored' by the models: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142
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#5
06-09-2007, 11:36 PM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty easy to pick apart almost every one of Cockburn's 'claims'.... [/ QUOTE ] I'm a long ways from being persuaded by him. But he is convincing when he says the consensus isn't what we've been told. Not because the consensus does not include every individual shill and nut, but because, according to Cockburn, it does not include one whole discipline -- the geologists.
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#6
06-10-2007, 03:05 AM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty easy to pick apart almost every one of Cockburn's 'claims'. Specifically on his assertion that CO2 levels lag behind temperature rises: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...2-in-ice-cores and http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...-temp-and-co2/ [/ QUOTE ] Strange, every time I've read those articles, the "logic" has seemed absurd and stupid, and his claim is pretty much exactly that. His claim is that these explanations are indeed terrible. How can the explanations he's calling terrible be used to refute him?
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#7
06-10-2007, 04:13 AM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's pretty easy to pick apart almost every one of Cockburn's 'claims'. Specifically on his assertion that CO2 levels lag behind temperature rises: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...2-in-ice-cores and http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...-temp-and-co2/ [/ QUOTE ] Strange, every time I've read those articles, the "logic" has seemed absurd and stupid, and his claim is pretty much exactly that. His claim is that these explanations are indeed terrible. How can the explanations he's calling terrible be used to refute him? [/ QUOTE ] Because these explanations are good enough for 99% of the people in the field. Do you have any education or expertise in scientific matters at all? Does Cockburn? Notice that he doesn't actually deconstruct any of the arguments scientifically. He says, "This one guy disagrees with these claims, so they must not be entirely true." This ignores the fact that the vast, vast majority of people who study these matters agree that man-made causes are exacerbating global warming. One of the objections he brings up in the article was discussed and dealt with over 15 years ago in the field. Scientists in the field have already considered the fact that there is a lag in CO2 levels behind temperatures. They feed back into each other. Higher temperatures lead to higher CO2 levels, and higher CO2 levels lead to higher temperatures. So when there is already warming going on, adding more CO2 accelerates the pace of that warming. And this is quite probably happening at such a rate that the Earth can't naturally handle the excess CO2. Why is that not a satisfactory answer? What have you read that deals with this rebuttal? I would actually be very interesting in anything you have that could deal with this. I'm not saying that the threat might be exaggerated slightly. But to claim that our industry isn't contributing to climate change is pretty ridiculous.
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#8
06-10-2007, 04:15 AM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's pretty easy to pick apart almost every one of Cockburn's 'claims'.... [/ QUOTE ] I'm a long ways from being persuaded by him. But he is convincing when he says the consensus isn't what we've been told. Not because the consensus does not include every individual shill and nut, but because, according to Cockburn, it does not include one whole discipline -- the geologists. [/ QUOTE ] There are reasonable scientists who don't believe that global warming is as big of a threat as many are claiming. These scientists don't, however, doubt that we are contributing to global warming. It's an indefensible position.
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#9
06-10-2007, 04:31 AM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hmm. Sensible leftists (i.e., credible sources) are sharply questioning the idea of human caused CO2 disaster. Alexander Cockburn says geologists are being ignored in the warming debate, and they are unconvinced that warming is manmade. Roundup of scientific heterodoxy [/ QUOTE ] Are you saying Algore is not a sensible leftist? [/ QUOTE ] I believe he is saying some, not all. An interesting article, although the author clearly has a strong opinion, and it really is an editorial rather than a balanced analysis. Clearly there are some scientists out there that don't agree with the mainstream climate change theories. But do "all" geologists really disagree, just because one or a few scientists say so? I'd be curious to find out. I'm pretty convinced that the climate change evidence is pretty conclusive, based on extensive personal research. But I'm always open to different opinions.
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#10
06-10-2007, 11:19 AM
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Re: My knee is slowing down about this global warming thing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It's pretty easy to pick apart almost every one of Cockburn's 'claims'. Specifically on his assertion that CO2 levels lag behind temperature rises: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...2-in-ice-cores and http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...-temp-and-co2/ [/ QUOTE ] Strange, every time I've read those articles, the "logic" has seemed absurd and stupid, and his claim is pretty much exactly that. His claim is that these explanations are indeed terrible. How can the explanations he's calling terrible be used to refute him? [/ QUOTE ] Because these explanations are good enough for 99% of the people in the field. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. And that statement makes it clear that it's not worth talking to you about this.
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