NL25 Extracting value. 3 hands

bluffbetter · #1 06-09-2007, 05:31 PM

Hand 1) vilain is new to the table. I wonder if I can play this a bit more sublte to make it less obvious I have a big hand. Any ideas?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($37.95)
SB ($24.30)
BB ($17.70)
UTG ($8.20)
MP ($25.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, UTG folds, MP calls $1.25.

Flop: ($4.60) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $3, MP folds.

Final Pot: $7.60

2nd hand)
Villain is 16.3/6.1/8 over 49 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($21.75)
SB ($30.90)
BB ($27)
UTG ($28.70)
MP ($44.20)
CO ($77.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $1, MP folds, Hero calls $1, SB folds.

Turn: ($3) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $2, Hero raises to $4.5, BB folds.

Final Pot: $9.50

3rd hand)

Villain is 50.8/41.5/2.6 over 65 hands and has raised 3BB in 3rd position over a loose limper and then made a big bluff on all streets. And also raised A3 unsuited UTG and raised 59 in 2nd position over a veryloose limper

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($23.65)
Button ($34.50)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($9.10)
UTG ($42.75)
MP ($55.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, UTG folds, MP calls $1.25.

Flop: ($4.60) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $3, MP calls $3.

Turn: ($10.60) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4, MP folds.

Final Pot: $14.60

samwallistea · #2 06-09-2007, 05:37 PM

Hand 1: Seems fine as quite a draw heavy board; you had to be at it.

Hand 2: Even with a limper I would recommend raising PF with a PP, gives you a bigger pot if you do hit your set, gives you the chance to bluff at it on flop and you could also take it down preflop. On flop you could have raised but clearly he has no hand so you were never going to get much value here IMO.

Hand 3: Against a loose aggressive player you could try and trap but personally I like your line, just unlucky he has no hand or no urge to bluff at it.

jessyj07 · #3 06-09-2007, 05:39 PM

Hand 1: it's fine, what else can you do>
Hand 2: I always w/o exception raise this [censored] up and it builds a bigger pot. I'd never just call on the flop either.
Hand 3: I'd bet slightly more on the turn.

TIGERsrm · #4 06-09-2007, 05:46 PM

Hand 1- Raise more pf and bet closer to pot on the draw heavy flop.

Hand2- Raise pf, you have positon and want to give yourself as many ways to win the pot as possible. Plus its much easier to win a big pot when you flop a set in a raised pot.
As played def raise flop, drawy board and you also want to start building a pot. Raise more on turn.

Hand 3- Raise more pf, turn against such a loose maniac i'd fire out about $7 and hope he comes along. Not the greatest card for you actually.

I see a pattern emerging, you need to get more money in the pot!! Don't be scared of chasing people away, you were just unlucky not to get action on these hands.

bluffbetter · #5 06-09-2007, 05:57 PM

What about when you have a pocket pair and lets say you are in second position with one limper and there are some loose fish behing you who like to see loads of cheap flops but may well fold to a normal raise of 4BB +1 for the limper?

I figure sometimes you either have to raise less or not at all preflop to keep them in so when you hit, you are more likely to get paid off.

bluffbetter · #6 06-09-2007, 06:07 PM

What do you all think about flat calling the flop in hand 2 to attempt to get a weaker hand to pay me off? He's a tight player so 67 is unlikely and I don't think you can be too paranoid about just one opponent having a flush draw.

Maybe I could get pairs below the king to come along and then flat call again with a non scary turn.

Suaimhnea · #7 06-09-2007, 06:17 PM

Hand 1: I'd elect to raise more preflop. As a player, I'm wary of small ball raises just as I'm wary of legit-sized three-bets. On the flop, I bet more like 80% of the pot. At this point, it's not an extraction, but a protection.

Hand 2: With these stack sizes, I'd be raising preflop. With the exception of yourself, most are deep and you need to build a pot to get your chips in. I'd plan on the MP folding, but hopefully you can pick up a caller from the button or blinds. On the flop, I'd continue. As played, I'd call the turn, hopefully for our tight-very aggressive opponent to fire again on a river.

Hand 3: Check the turn and lead/raise when checked/bet into on the river.

TIGERsrm · #8 06-09-2007, 06:36 PM

You need to start playing to maximise your long term profits and stop trying to 'gaurantee' someone stays with you till the river.
You want to start building pots as early as you can with big hands especailly at these stakes as this sets up a big river bet.
Missing just 1 street of value has a huge effect on the final pot. For instance say the pot is $2 on flop, you check a big hand so turn is still $2, you bet pot on turn and get called, $6 pot on river, you bet $5 dollars and get called for total pot of $16. Now lets say you bet $2 on flop, $5 on turn. You can see the pot is $16 dollars on river with a bet still to come so this sets you up for some real money to be won.
Back me up here guys. There are times for slowplaying but I dont think any of the situations you posted apply.
Sorry to go on, I wish I could explain myself better but unfortunately I suck at posting!

ocdscale · #9 06-09-2007, 06:49 PM

Betting is fine in all of these cases, in fact I probably bet more in hand 3 on the turn.
If they don't have a hand, you're not going to get any money from them regardless of how you play. By slowplaying, all you're doing is giving them infinite odds to suck out.

You have to bet because: it disguises your semibluffs/cbets, and it builds the pot. You want to win big pots with big hands.

Sober · #10 06-09-2007, 07:03 PM

Hand 1: raise to ~$2.75 pf. flop is fine

Hand 2: pleeeease raise this preflop. you are on the button and there is only one limper, this is a textbook raise to $1.25. As played, raise the flop to keep the flush draw out, ~$10.50. turn could be played any number of ways, but the right decision would be much easier if the previous streets had built a good pot.

Hand 3: Again, raise pf to ~$2.75. Flop is good, bet the turn more, to about $7.5

TIGERsrm is right, if you want to get value, you have to put money in the pot. Villains aren't going to do it for you. Remember: at NL25, there aren't many players willing to bet their whole stack by the river, but there are tons of players willing to call their whole stack. BET!