$16: bottom set on monotone board

Lion King · #1 06-06-2007, 12:42 PM

Both villains are unknown. I sharkscoped them and they both had around 200 sng's under their belt. sb is a fish and has a -41% ROI after those 200 and bb has a 19% ROI after 200.

I was a bit clueless after the small raise of bb on the flop. I decided to call. On the turn I get odds to fill if one of them has a flush (which I am not sure about). On the river they check to me, should I valuebet there?

Comments on all streets appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 (t1220)
MP1 (t2890)
MP2 (t1470)
CO (t1430)
Button (t1440)
SB (t2070)
BB (t1480)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t20, 2 folds, MP2 calls t20, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t80) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets t40, BB raises to t120, Hero calls t120, MP2 folds, SB calls t80.

Turn: (t440) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets t200, BB calls t200, Hero calls t200.

River: (t1040) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t1040

edit to change villain 1 in sb and villain 2 in bb

MikeMcQ1 · #2 06-06-2007, 12:45 PM

Re-raise flop and get it in if possible. You don't limp 44 UTG to slow play and contemplate being beat when you flop your set.

diditmyway · #3 06-06-2007, 12:46 PM

make their drawinghands pay more than you did.

tercet · #4 06-06-2007, 01:07 PM

Raise to 400 on flop, push turn.

Sparta45 · #5 06-06-2007, 01:14 PM

I'm okay with the flop. It's a 4 way flop and BB's re-rasing range is likely a Q or a Qplus a good flush draw or an already made flush. So since the pot is still small, I don't mind the call.

On the turn, I think the BB gave you some information about his hand by not re-raising. If he re-raised the flop (either because he didn't want scare cards to kill his actions or because he wanted to protect his "best" hand), then it figures that he would re-raise the turn for the same reasons.....so now I would discount him having a flush and likely put him on a Q or Q plus a nice flush draw. So I would probably push the turn here. I'm not really scared of the SB either....I don't think he has much.

As played, you could have value-bet the river after they check to you.

darks · #6 06-06-2007, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise to 400 on flop, push turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would do about the same...

MikeMcQ1 · #7 06-06-2007, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm okay with the flop. It's a 4 way flop and BB's re-rasing range is likely a Q or a Qplus a good flush draw or an already made flush. So since the pot is still small, I don't mind the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sparta, I completely disagree here. We've got a very good, but potentially vulnerable hand and at least one opponent who already is telling us he really likes his hand. No way do I let him and the others see a turn card for free, make them pay dearly.

aSsAsSiN2007 · #8 06-06-2007, 01:35 PM

im raising more on the flop and pushing turn

Sparta45 · #9 06-06-2007, 01:54 PM

Mike, BB is a decent player. What range do you put his him on re-raising in a 4 way flop?? I put him on a Q, strong kicker or a Q, plus strong flush draw or an already made flush. If you re-pop it, he's likely not going to chase. And if he has the flush already (which he may), you're 35% to the river.

Now if this was a raised pot, I would agree with you to just go ahead and play it like you have the nuts, but it's not. Everybody limped and it's still a small pot. I think you can afford to take one card off and get some more information on the turn. On the turn, we got that additional information, we can now be confident that BB does not have a flush, and the pot is now larger. Now I like a push.

If we push the flop, we're either going to get no action and win a small pot or we're going to be called for a large pot and be a 35% dog to the river.

MikeMcQ1 · #10 06-06-2007, 02:04 PM

I think you're giving a guy with 200 games at the 16s a little too much credit, not to mention the other 3 players in the hand potentially outdrawing you. He has a hand you describe way more often than a flopped flush (2-pair, Qx, Qx + club, AcXx, and some other crap). You currently have two, maybe three, opponnents who may pay you off here. If you win it now, nh. If you lose it later, shame on you.