Two Pair on the Internet - Large Pot

[Jeffage]

Comments on all streets appreciated - thanks.

Jeff

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (7.10 SB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises

5th Street - (8.05 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls

6th Street - (14.05 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls

River - (20.05 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks___folds

Total pot: (24.05 BB)

[Andy B]

You should really try being more aggressive.

[xxeximusxx]

3rd is not a raise with the A still left to act, im sure you know that though. This was to agressively imo, your hand is not that strong and the A is really representing he has a pair of aces.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
3rd is not a raise with the A still left to act, im sure you know that though. This was to agressively imo, your hand is not that strong and the A is really representing he has a pair of aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 pair beatum 1 pair. Why in the world would we limp QQ here on 3rd?

This is how I would play it including the river c/r. There might be some sort of adorable play like waiting for 5th (6th even?) to raise similar to the one mentioned in I think Reese's SS section if the pot was HU but multiway I think you want to just get everyone's money in there.

I assume that seat 5 started like 5s6s7s/5s7sTs or had 88/99?

[Bartholow]

4th street raise is the only part I dislike here. Pot got too big on 3rd for you to knock anyone out on 4th.

Not raising 3rd would be awful.

[MRBAA]

I like 3rd and 4th -- actually think both are pretty standard. On fifth, the guy with 89 has kind of defined his hand by calling two cold on fourth. Sure looks like an oesd or trips, and I'm going to assume the guy with the A actually has 'em. Against Aces and an OESD, a raise does not feel +EV. Add in the possibility of one of the others having more than that and making it three bets and I probably just call. As played, the jack sure looks like a danger card for the OESD so I'm probably not betting out if I think about it. If I don't, tho, I think my two pair is good against the uniimproved aces with one card to come, so I bet it and get raised just like you.

On the river, you played it perfectly -- catching the deuce as opposed to the queen is much more irritating to opponents.

[Wahoo73]

I'm with you, MRBAA.

The only part of this hand that I don't like Jeff is the 5th street raise. What were you trying to represent? (I mean the 6h obviously didn't improve your hand any.) What did you expect it to accomplish? (You couldn't have expected either of them to fold given what their hands were showing.)

Otherwise, I like all of the rest of the way you played it. VNH.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
You should really try being more aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
On fifth, the guy with 89 has kind of defined his hand by calling two cold on fourth. Sure looks like an oesd or trips, and I'm going to assume the guy with the A actually has 'em. Against Aces and an OESD, a raise does not feel +EV. Add in the possibility of one of the others having more than that and making it three bets and I probably just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Qs has 40% equity in a three-way pot against a live OESD and Aces on 4th, 45% equity on 5th, and 55% equity on 6th (twodimes). Therefore a raise on all sts. will be +EV, just more so the later you do it.

Since opponents are much more likely to call a raise on 3rd from a Q with 678 than a gutshot (7T8 or TJ8) based off of the 3rd and 4th st action his most likely hand (about 50% of the time) is 6789. The other 50% of his hands would be a mix of 7T89, TJ89, trips, 3 flush/str8+pair, 3 flush+gut shot str8, 2 pair, gutshot (in decending order of probability).

The 5th street raise is very bad because it looks like the 89 just caught his str8. If he didn't catch a str8 he might already have trips. If he doesn't have you beat, he is not folding an OESD, so you should wait for a safe 6th card before you get in your 1 raise. If he doesn't have you beat and doesn't have a OESD he will fold any gutshot to a single bet from the AKJ, and will probably fold a pair+3 flush/str8 as well.

Thus, the only hands that the raise is actually good against is when your opponent has 2 pair or a pair+gutshot, both of which are unlikely hands.

Furthermore, the AKJ either has a great draw vs your two pair or already has you beat.

Also, by just calling 5th you add some deception to the hand and your overall game while making the highest EV play.

Carlos

[southerndog]

[ QUOTE ]

Jeff

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10)

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this the state of stud games on the internet?