Two pair against solid/aggro villain

SomethingClever · #1 06-05-2007, 04:16 PM

WSEX $50 NL

Villain is fairly solid and aggressive. Hero opens A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the SB for $2, villain calls in the BB.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($4)

Hero bets $3, Villain raises to $7, Hero calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($18)

Hero checks, Villain bets $7, Hero....

Anyone play this differently on the flop? How about the turn... lead or CR? Or do you guys fold the flop.

C4LL4W4Y · #2 06-05-2007, 04:18 PM

I don't really get calling the flop raise, it's fold or raise depending on how wild he gets in sb/bb.

Maneh · #3 06-05-2007, 04:23 PM

Shove flop;

Now, i dont know what to do :| But i probally call the small bet and re-evaluate the river:|

SomethingClever · #4 06-05-2007, 04:25 PM

Thoughts behind calling flop raise:

- His raise is weak. He will do this sometimes with nothing at all, or a draw.

- My hand has showdown value, but I don't want to go to the felt on the flop with TPNK. Sometimes if I call he will shut down and let us get to showdown relatively cheaply.

- I often have two pair and backdoor straight outs.

Not saying any of this is correct, just a thought process. Folding felt weak given that villain is aggressive and he raised so little. Raising felt wrong... not sure why. I guess my hand just felt a little weak to b/3b this flop.

Grifter · #5 06-05-2007, 04:37 PM

I like call, and then block the river if no heart falls. I think you are ahead of his range here, but I don't think you can c/r the turn for value since you are way behind his calling range. Also, I think villain checks behind anything you beat on the river (excpet maybe A2) and probably wouldn't raise anything but flush/set. I'm not at all confident about this though and I'd like to hear other opinions. should we be concerned w/ protecting against lone hearts on the turn?

Maneh · #6 06-05-2007, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]

- My hand has showdown value, but I don't want to go to the felt on the flop with TPNK. Sometimes if I call he will shut down and let us get to showdown relatively cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man, sorry to say Shove the Flop; I missread the board and think u got 2 pairs on flop, not on turn...

So, i think call is the best option. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Chomp · #7 06-05-2007, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts behind calling flop raise:

- His raise is weak. He will do this sometimes with nothing at all, or a draw.

- My hand has showdown value, but I don't want to go to the felt on the flop with TPNK. Sometimes if I call he will shut down and let us get to showdown relatively cheaply.

- I often have two pair and backdoor straight outs.

Not saying any of this is correct, just a thought process. Folding felt weak given that villain is aggressive and he raised so little. Raising felt wrong... not sure why. I guess my hand just felt a little weak to b/3b this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

These were exactly my thoughts looking at the hand.

On both flop and turn villain can have {air, worse A, a good J, a worse 2p, a naked Kh, set, maybe a pp of some kind}. If I had to guess from the action I'd say a medium A, so AJ is a bit of a worry TBH and turn bet may well be a milker. Maybe a nasty set.

Meh, so I think I get to turn same as hero, call turn and hope for c/c on river with lots of fake tanking. But unfortnately a river bet from villain of over $12 or $13 would be a fold as mhng at that point.

Fwiw, I cannot work out the EV implications of a flop c/r but instinctively don't like it.

SomethingClever · #8 06-05-2007, 05:26 PM

Having thought about this some more I like your line.

CR the turn doesn't accomplish too much because he's either beating us with a set or flush and will shove, or fold his air or 2nd pair. Some Ax hands will probably call, and he'll probably call with a decent heart, but I think the only hand we're reliably stacking is like A2... a worse two pair.

At the time my thinking was, "Oh, he bet super weak on the turn here, let me own him with a CR." But I need to pause for a moment and think it through more than that. If his bet really does signal weakness, he will fold. And if it doesn't, well, I'm behind.