A friend and I disagree

aK13 · #1 06-01-2007, 05:55 PM

6/12 live

A standard live player opens MP, folded to Hero in SB who calls with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , BB calls.

MP's opening range is probably 88-AA, AT+, KJ+

Flop is 3way: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Check, check, MP bets, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn is 2way: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Check, MP bets, Hero raises

Zeldark · #2 06-01-2007, 06:05 PM

By "standard live player" do you mean "people don't go to the casino to fold"? You are semibluffing in a spot where the bluff portion is likely to fail. I don't like it. Has the defintion of standard live player has changed lately?

Buzz-cp · #3 06-01-2007, 06:13 PM

I prefer to 3-bet preflop. This line never works for me online. I guess it could work live.

Niediam · #4 06-01-2007, 06:21 PM

Preflop: I'd definately consider a 3bet. You are about 50/50 vs his range HU but when you raise you increase the chances of the other blind folding and putting some dead money in the pot. Plus I'm going to assume you can outplay villian postlfop, but to be fair your position does suck.

Flop: good

Turn: Only good if villian can fold. Very read dependant. Of course he doesn't have to fold very often at all to make this play good, but some villians would never fold AK here and if he is that type of player I just call.

bozlax · #5 06-01-2007, 07:04 PM

I agree with Buzz, trey preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course he doesn't have to fold very often at all to make this play good, but some villians would never fold AK here and if he is that type of player I just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This goes to what Zelda was asking; I don't think any live player is folding a better hand to the turn c/r. He may fold if you fire again at the river, but again I'd be surprised if he folds anything better. He's certainly not folding a TT+/AK.

Also, at this point the pot isn't very big, 5bb before rake, so he does need to fold a good bit to make this a good play.

aK13 · #6 06-01-2007, 08:43 PM

Our concesus about preflop was that 6 bets are going (most likely) whether Hero calls or 3bets. With AJs it's probably not a bad idea to keep BB since our "pair" ability is tainted, so with an extra player to pad for the "draw" ability.

I definitely agree that if called on the turn, a continuation on the river is needed.

Obvious question is how often AQ/AK folds. Roughly we'd need about 1/3 would be my guess. I think that's optimistic, for sure.

nerdking · #7 06-01-2007, 10:45 PM

trey preflop, bet/call flop, check call turn.

as played turn is spewage. If you're gonna get tricky, CR the flop when its cheap.

bravos1 · #8 06-01-2007, 11:46 PM

adam.. can this guy find a fold? There are a few I play with that this will work on nicely, but against a random, not so much.

The biggest thing about a 3-bet here is not that 6 bets are going in regardless (and if BB folds there will actually be 7, but w/e). We are about even vs his range, but a 3bet gives us more perceived fold equity if he has missed overs.

ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S · #9 06-02-2007, 03:30 AM

really really bad if its anything like where i play....

in a live game you are called down by 22, probably even by A-hi. you need 50%+ equity to do this

Nogatsira · #10 06-02-2007, 03:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
really really bad if its anything like where i play....

in a live game you are called down by 22, probably even by A-hi. you need 50%+ equity to do this

[/ QUOTE ]

Are live games really THAT bad? God I wish I lived anywhere near a casino [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img](