KQ from SB, lots of limpers--weak laydown?

allhappythoughts · #1 05-29-2007, 04:54 PM

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t25/t50
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1130
UTG+1: t1675
MP1: t1050
CO: t2180
Button: t1415
Hero: t3675
BB: t2375

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 calls t50 (pot was t75), CO calls t50 (pot was t125), Button calls t50 (pot was t175), Hero calls t25 (pot was t225), BB checks.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t250, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t250, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO bets t225, Button folds, Hero folds, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: t225 returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: t250

This is a spot I seem to find myself in a lot, and I don't know whether this is a weak laydown or just standard. There are a lot of limpers behind me, and I know that if I raise someone will call (this is a $5 with a wide range and I'll be OOP obviously.

Villain has been pretty tight and hasn't gotten out of line so far. No notes, but sharkscope says he's a winning player. I want to say that in this spot, I'm winning maybe 60-75% of the time, but he could be playing 77 or 22 here and be a little scared of the possible flush. If it's just the two of us in the hand, I think I call, but there are too many acting behind me and I don't think this is a raise at all.

So, standard? Thanks.

Sparta45 · #2 05-29-2007, 05:01 PM

Since everybody checked the flop, I think you're pretty safe to bet the turn.

sixfour · #3 05-29-2007, 05:02 PM

Bet the turn and let him make the decision. As played I'm probably calling and re-evaluating the river.

allhappythoughts · #4 05-29-2007, 05:26 PM

Yeah, I realized that checking the turn lets him bet a wide-range there to just take it down then and there, I was just scared that with so many limpers, betting the turn could lead to a raise or two that I wouldn't exactly be comfortable calling. I always get scared in these multiway pots of things like that happening, unless I have a really strong holding.

evaworcim · #5 05-29-2007, 05:40 PM

This is a really weak fold. Bet ~175 on the turn. As played call and cc a non spade river.

flavio321 · #6 05-29-2007, 05:54 PM

how about a check-raise to 700+ and cc river if called or fold to 3 bet?

hoyasaxa · #7 05-29-2007, 05:55 PM

You have to bet out here for exactly the reasons youre describing. By betting, you will better be able to evaluate the strength of your hand. If you bet out and get raised, you can be pretty sure youre beat in a multiway pot like that. If you get called, you can check call a river, and you might just win the pot outright.

Scuba Chuck · #8 05-29-2007, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how about a check-raise to 700+ and cc river if called or fold to 3 bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL?

Scuba Chuck · #9 05-29-2007, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]

CO: t2180
Hero: t3675

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t250, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t250, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO bets t225, Button folds, Hero folds, 2 folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some answers are better than most. Stacksizes make a difference in your thinking on hands like this as well. If villain is pretty tight, then what hand range do you put him on? Will villain limp with AQ with this stack after 1 limper from the CO? Will villain check behind a set on this flop? Will villain limp with KT preflop? If you start thinking about a hand range for him, it will help you decide.

BTW, given stacksizes, I think leading the turn is a better route.

DevinLake · #10 05-29-2007, 06:04 PM

It's a tough spot. I probably just lead the turn and re-evaluate from there.

It's hard to put a winning player on a hand here. He should be betting any made hand on the flop, QJ, 22, JJ, 77. I don't see him ever having QQ here.

So, what's he beting now? Maybe AQ or another KQ? He could have 9T. He could have a picked up a flush draw. Anyway, I don't believe you are beating enough of his range to call this out of position. So, I'd probably fold as well.