Weird Razz Hand Against A Donkey Opponent

[buzzard1881]

Razz ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls

4th Street - (2.40 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

5th Street - (1.20 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

6th Street - (3.20 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

River - (5.20 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

Total pot: (7.20 BB)

What I would like to know is, was 5th a clear fold?? It feels like such a blatant trap that belongs in 50/1, but I think I made a mistake calling here, perhaps it was the donkey factor.. Any tips?

[fatsally]

I'd say 5th is a clear fold.
But maybe thats because .50/1 is where I play now.
My question is, is 3rd a clear call?

[DJ Sensei]

if he's an aggressive player, he'll complete 3rd with anything in the hole. calling with the Q up kinda gives away your hand as 2 babies in the hole, but if he's stealing any 2 your equity isnt too bad here, and its still early/cheap.

his checking on 4th seems to be a show of a mid-strength draw. if he had a real hand he'd almost always be firing there, and if he had a crap stealing hand, he'd fire again and try to take it down.

against 2 random hole cards, you're a 69/31 favorite on 5th.
against a draw to a 9876 or better on 6th, you're a 78/22 favorite.
against a draw to an 8765 or better on 6th, you're a 75/25 favorite.

I think I might c/c river too, to pick off bluffs. I dont think a valuebet here has much value, and you're certainly not bluffing him off a better hand.

[buzzard1881]

[ QUOTE ]
if he's an aggressive player, he'll complete 3rd with anything in the hole. calling with the Q up kinda gives away your hand as 2 babies in the hole, but if he's stealing any 2 your equity isnt too bad here, and its still early/cheap.

his checking on 4th seems to be a show of a mid-strength draw. if he had a real hand he'd almost always be firing there, and if he had a crap stealing hand, he'd fire again and try to take it down.

against 2 random hole cards, you're a 69/31 favorite on 5th.
against a draw to a 9876 or better on 6th, you're a 78/22 favorite.
against a draw to an 8765 or better on 6th, you're a 75/25 favorite.

I think I might c/c river too, to pick off bluffs. I dont think a valuebet here has much value, and you're certainly not bluffing him off a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Defending my bring in against a most likely steal, with A3Q is standard(I am pretty sure). I was folding to a 4th street bet with the 9, and I value betted it because this guy is a donk and would call me if he hit a 9 or above.

[betgo]

Villain's check on 4th and bet on 5th looks like a slowplay, so I would read him for 2 wheel cards in the hole.

[Beavis68]

if you are going to call down it seems like you want to raise 5th. If he has a T or worse in the whole you are a big favorite.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are going to call down it seems like you want to raise 5th. If he has a T or worse in the whole you are a big favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]
Like I said, from 4th street it seems very unlikely villain doesn't have 2 wheel cards in the hole. He could have made hero fold with a bet, but didn't.

[buzzard1881]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you are going to call down it seems like you want to raise 5th. If he has a T or worse in the whole you are a big favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]
Like I said, from 4th street it seems very unlikely villain doesn't have 2 wheel cards in the hole. He could have made hero fold with a bet, but didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was 80% sure he did have 2 wheel cards in the hole(which he did) but I couldnt resist temptation to take another card against this donkey. From an odds standpoint though, if im *pretty* sure he has low cards in the hole, is this a bad or good call?

[crack2]

If the ante really is $1 and you are playing 4 handed then I don't think you can justify a call with the Q up. We know he can be raising with anything in that spot but for such little money we can't call can we?

Again if I had called I might just go ahead and fold 5th for such a small pot.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
If the ante really is $1 and you are playing 4 handed then I don't think you can justify a call with the Q up. We know he can be raising with anything in that spot but for such little money we can't call can we?

Again if I had called I might just go ahead and fold 5th for such a small pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the sructure on Stars, mimicking live 10/20. I agree that defending on 3rd is really bad short handed.

The call on 5th is also bad. Villain may be a donkey, but OP misplayed this hand badly.