live 6/12 - I need a suited connectors check up

[mrcunningham]

I would like to verify that variance and not stupidity was why I dumped 22 BB in 60 minutes yesterday.

9-handed, typical mostly loose-passive but a couple LAGs on a weekday morning.

5 limpers, and I limp with 5d3d on the button, SB completes, BB raises, we all call.
Flop: Jd 9d 6x
BB bets, 3 call, MP raises, call, I call, SB calls, BB 3-bets, 2 call, MP caps, we all call.
Turn: 3x
MP bets, fold, I call, 2 more callers

Thoughts?
PF: Generally, I will call any suited 0 or 1 gappers on the button in an unraised pot with >3 limpers. Is this too loose? If so, how about in this hand with 5 limpers in front of me?
Flop: I was tempted to 3-bet, but ended up deciding that I wasn't going to protect my hand with a 3-bet in this huge pot, there was no value given the number of callers and my tiny flush draw, and it might get capped anyway without me betting. Was this sensible or does anyone find a 3-bet to be EV+ here?
After it caps, I'm stuck calling because of the huge pot, right?
Turn: Huge pot, I'm along for the ride even if this capped, correct?

[Niediam]

Preflop: standard

Flop: unless you think raising will knock people out I raise for value

Turn: folding here would be bad bad bad

[tyler_cracker]

i wouldn't 3bet the flop. your draw is a little weaker than average -- you have no hope of winning by spiking a pair; if there is another [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] draw out there, it is better than yours (flush over flush is rare, but it has some effect since the pot is quite mutliway).

the rest is standard.

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]
i wouldn't 3bet the flop. your draw is a little weaker than average -- you have no hope of winning by spiking a pair; if there is another [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] draw out there, it is better than yours (flush over flush is rare, but it has some effect since the pot is quite mutliway).



[/ QUOTE ]

I put this in the same group as...

Only call with TT after a raise and a couple callers because somebody could have a bigger pair already and even if they don't there will often be an overcard(s) on the the flop.

or,

Fold your nut flush draw in a large pot on a paired turn to a bet and a raise because somebody probably has a boat already.

[StrictlyStrategy]

The only reason for not 3betting the flop is because you might get a few people out and turn this in to a 3 way pot.

[tyler_cracker]

i agree that this decision is close and that we should take many factors into consideration, as with those other decisions you posted.

i guess i should have added that we also want to keep customers if possible (as you said) (edited to add and not get 3-way or HU with better hands, which, when added to the other considerations, makes me want to just call.

am i still a wimp?

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]
i agree that this decision is close and that we should take many factors into consideration, as with those other decisions you posted.

i guess i should have added that we also want to keep customers if possible (as you said) (edited to add and not get 3-way or HU with better hands, which, when added to the other considerations, makes me want to just call.

am i still a wimp?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are only a wimp if you fold on the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Which interestingly enough was the advice suggest in this book that I looked at today which was basically the same situation.

The book actual may be resonably good. It's mostly a bunch of hand examples like at the end of SSH and I agreed with the author on most of them that I read in the first half of the book.

[Esso]

There is also a 2+2 book that recommends folding in a similar situation.

The reasoning they give is that you have 7 opponents. Two are raising and reraising at every opportunity. 5 people are coldcalling multiple bets multiple times. If one of the raisers doesn't have the nut flush draw, one of the cold callers has a flush draw that beats yours.

Not saying I agree with it, but that is the advice given.

[NickPappagiorgio]

I play it the same except depending on the game and the players, I might 3 bet the flop.

[Niediam]

Which book is this in?

Seem that the situation is a bit different though as in this hand we just have a bet and raise while in your example we have two people who are 'raising and reraising at every opportunity' and five (wow) callers.

Plus most of the Twoplustwo book hand examples are from middle stakes games where they assume opponents are atleast moderately competant while this hand is 6/12 where might call two cold hoping to pair their A4o. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]