NL600 - JJ - Ugly River..

[pterodactyl_]

Bodog History for Hand #730962608
Hold'em No Limit ($3.00/$6.00) - 2007-05-26 14:37:01
Table 'All Americans' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: HeadsAndTails ($188.00)
Seat 2: beezo22 ($341.00)
Seat 3: pterodactyl_ ($603.00)
Seat 4: ahitspat ($584.25)
Seat 5: BrewTown Donkey ($628.00)
Seat 6: Baroo33 ($1516.00)
Seat 7: nitboy ($1095.96)
Seat 8: PCRULLI ($828.00)
Seat 9: War_Crimes ($934.00)
------------------------------
NEW HAND
HeadsAndTails: posts the small blind $3.00
beezo22: posts the big blind $6.00
--- DEALING POCKETS
pterodactyl_ is dealt [J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
pterodactyl_: raises $18.00 to $24.00
ahitspat: folds
BrewTown Donkey: folds
Baroo33: folds
nitboy: folds
PCRULLI: calls $24.00
War_Crimes: folds
HeadsAndTails: folds
beezo22: calls $18.00
Baroo33: is sitting out
War_Crimes: is sitting out
--- DEALING FLOP [3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
beezo22: checks
pterodactyl_: bets $61.00
PCRULLI: calls $61.00
beezo22: folds
--- DEALING TURN [Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
pterodactyl_: bets $180.00
PCRULLI: calls $180.00
A New $1.00/$2.00 Texas Hold'em table La Quinta has started.
--- DEALING RIVER [8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
pterodactyl_: checks
PCRULLI: goes all in $563.00

Hey guys, sorry for not converting this but it shouldnt be too bad. Do I beat enough of his range to call. I've got 338$ behind and the pot is ~570$. Is this enough behind to find a fold? This was my first stab at NL600 and had only been at the table for an orbit so no real reads or stats.

EDIT: Pot is 77$ on flop and 199$ on turn.

[D.L.M.]

Its 300 to you? call, if he called with the fd on the turn and did this every time he hit youd still be ahead in the long run.

[novel20]

You play NL600?

[CalledDownLight]

[ QUOTE ]
Its 300 to you? call, if he called with the fd on the turn and did this every time he hit youd still be ahead in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thinking is truly awful...I expected better from you. Just because you would still profit doesn't mean that you should call when he actaully makes a flush if thats what you put him on. I think he has a hand like AhQh here a lot of the time. I think he shows up with a set of 3s a pretty small portion of the time also. Obviously any other hearts is shoving, but unless he's a total donk I doubt he plays a regular heart draw like this. I also think he shoves KQ for value here some of the time, but he would also raise the turn with that sometimes. Your hand looks a lot like AK or AA imo which can also add in some weird bluff, but it would be too weird for him to get to the river with total air so I discount that. I probably call here, but don't like it too much.

[D.L.M.]

I was simply pointing out that even if he does have the flush which im not saying he does that we still make profit so a call is the only way to go. All other hands in villians range only help our cause, but worse comes to worse and he has the flush then we are still ok.

[soah]

he almost never holds a hand which will (needs to) bluff once we see this river card, so the options with this stack size are shove or check/fold... check/calling is just not good. Any hand that bets the river would call our shove but he will check behind many worse hands if given the chance. Given how much money already went in the pot I'd just shove here with no read.

[Raised2Win]

[ QUOTE ]
I was simply pointing out that even if he does have the flush which im not saying he does that we still make profit so a call is the only way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol if we make profit X on turn doesn't mean we should make negative profit Y on the river even if X is bigger than Y. We would like to make positive profit on turn and the river. and if we are going to call the river, that means we need to beat his range enough to make positive profit on RIVER.

As u were told, bad advice.

about the hand, we need to know your opponents tendencies to guarantee a profitable decision on the river. since we dont have one, its so pretty damn close but im falling towards folding because of the added posibility that he made straight on turn and slowplayed it. but its so close.

[Raised2Win]

[ QUOTE ]
he almost never holds a hand which will (needs to) bluff once we see this river card, so the options with this stack size are shove or check/fold... check/calling is just not good. Any hand that bets the river would call our shove but he will check behind many worse hands if given the chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, this is shove yourself or check fold.

[BT2]

i think you can fold here. if he had any showdown value that you beat he would just check behind. it is either a flush, a straight, or a total bluff. i think a flush is so much more likely, especially on memorial day weekend.

[D.L.M.]

yes put half your chips in and fold ambigious scare card brilliant