Silly Marginal Hands getting me in trouble, help needed!

[Damani311]

I knew when i saw this hand i was in trouble...didn't really know what to make of the guys raise, figured he either had A-A or 10-9s.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB (t18143)
Hero (t5425)
UTG (t2945)
UTG+1 (t380)
MP1 (t3100)
MP2 (t2925)
CO (t6950)
Button (t7685)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t200.

Flop: (t900) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t200</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t600</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t2525</font>, Hero calls t1925.

Turn: (t5950) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t5950) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t5950

I know i probably shouldnt have called his push, but is there anything up to that point you would have done differently? I figured i got pot odds preflop, and then had to find out where i stood on the flop....any opinions both welcome and wanted, thanks

[Cornell Fiji]

finding out where you stand in late in a short stacked tournaments is one of the most misused concepts in poker.

it is almost always true that the information that you receive is worth less than the price that you pay for it

[bigdaddydrew]

Take the lead on the flop. You bet 500-600, and he pushes, you still have an M of about 15 if you're forced to fold.

And if you only win the pre-flop action, you add almost 20 percent to your stack as well.

[uberdonk]

first thing is lead flop...

as played the call was terrible cause you don't beat anything at all

[swede554]

These spots are tough to play vs a small stack if you don't have a good read on what a minraise means from him. If you think he's strong it's ok to fold this preflop. Villain is not deep enough to offer you enough implied odds. As a matter of fact you're dishing out reverse implied odds here because often you'll flop a top-pair sort of hand and if you're behind it will cost you alot to find that out, and if you're ahead you'll usually only win a small pot.

edit: KJo OOP is really just trash IMO

[burningyen]

I don't like the CR because the stack sizes commit you to pushing if MP2 makes a reasonable cont bet (500-600). I would have led out for 500. As it turned out, given his donk bet, the CR is ok. After his shove I probably call because I go for the fold button so quickly that I misclick.

[BarryLyndon]

I don't like TJ Cloutier's advice that much, but one of the best things I read from his work is that calling with KJo OOP is one of the worst things you can do to yourself in poker (personally, for me, AJo is a close second). Add that it's a stack that's mini raising with an M of less than 10, and it compounds the problem. Fold preflop.

In the future, think about the situations you will find yourself in with KJo against these stacks. Think about what will happen if a K, J, or blank hits and you have to face an all-in decision. If the answer "it will suck" comes to your head, then you know what the problem is.

As played, I would just CALL some bets after checking, because that's the best way to get value out of this hand. You revaluate based on his play on each street. The J is not a very scary card; in fact, a lot of players will fire with QJs, J10s, and medium pairs either trying to represent something higher OR trying to get value out of medium pairs.

When he bets 200 into 900, it's a gift - take it. Don't RR and let him put you to a terrible decision. You get no value out of RR here - either he is gladly going to put the rest of his $$ in with AJ, QQ+, set, or he is going to fold. Anything else is a ridiculous play by him, which doesn't seem to be consistent with how this hand is going.

Barry

[FlyingCarpet]

Fold PF, KJo is a very troublesome hand, made worse by being OOP.

As played, lead flop or worst case check/call, definitely don't c/r villian's total donk bet.

Then again, maybe I'm a nit.