5/10 Rule: Can anyone find a good link?

[Hellmouth]

Hey guys,

I am looking for a good link or good explination of the 5/10 rule. I think I don't really understand it but it must be simple. I suck at playing sets.

I am also interested because of the link that discusses playing suited connectors references it as well as modifies it for suited connectors.

Here is the link that was floating around earlier.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

Greg

[Hellmouth]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10220964

This is the best I have gotten so far. Anything more comprehensive?

Greg

[TheRenaissance]

Here you go:
linky

Some math in there, but all you really need to know is that if you are playing a small pocket pair for set value you need to get back 11.7 times your preflop investment.

[Hellmouth]

OK. I am going to elaborate on my thoughts here. Maybe someone can tell me where I am going wrong.

My understanding of the 5/10 rule.

Situation 1: I am on the button with 22. My stack is $25 because so far I still have that much left in my FT account. Villain raises in the CO to $1.

If $1 < 5% of villains stack I call always (so if Villain has $20 or more).

If $1 is more than 10 of villain's stack I fold (so if villain has $10 or less).

In the middle we use our judgement. We need 11.7*$1 to break even so probably if villain is aggro and likes to get it all in we are more likely to call.

Situation #2:
I raise 22 in the CO and am 3 bet by the button or one of the blinds. I always raise $1 and villain reraises to $3. This seems typical at nl25 6max. So villain must have at least $20 behind to even consider a call. That pretty much means villains must have a full stack to even consider calling and even this call is pretty marginal.

If there is some dead money in the pot or villain raises more than is typical like $3.5 then there is no way we can call $2.5 because unless villain has more than a full stack we can not get 10% since villain will not have $25 behind.

Is this correct?

If so how does it change with more than one player in the pot calling in front of us but some are not full stacked? How do we weight the implied odds and hope we get our 11.7X back if some guys only have $5? Do we play as if we are just playing the raiser and his stack? What if the raiser in example 1 only has $5 but is UTG and there is a cold caller behind with a full stack? Do our implied odds still suck since the ccaller prob folds the flop if he misses?

Also, in one of the threads I referenced above Grunch mentions that he has modified the rule to 3/7. Does that mean that even with full stacks we are not getting good enough odds to call a 3bet with a pp unless the 3better has way more than a full stack?

Any help would be great.
Greg

PS, I am not getting value out of my sets. Can you tell?

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
Here you go:
linky

Some math in there, but all you really need to know is that if you are playing a small pocket pair for set value you need to get back 11.7 times your preflop investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I never seem to get back 11.7 X my investment and am still really confused about when I should be calling 3 bets.

Greg

[XHitman014]

[ QUOTE ]


Situation 1: I am on the button with 22. My stack is $25 because so far I still have that much left in my FT account. Villain raises in the CO to $1.

If $1 < 5% of villains stack I call always (so if Villain has $20 or more).

If $1 is more than 10 of villain's stack I fold (so if villain has $10 or less).



[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're applying the rule incorrectly in this case. You shouldn't always fold, you just can't play it for "set value." It has way more validity in the second example where you were 3bet.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Situation 1: I am on the button with 22. My stack is $25 because so far I still have that much left in my FT account. Villain raises in the CO to $1.

If $1 < 5% of villains stack I call always (so if Villain has $20 or more).

If $1 is more than 10 of villain's stack I fold (so if villain has $10 or less).



[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're applying the rule incorrectly in this case. You shouldn't always fold, you just can't play it for "set value." It has way more validity in the second example where you were 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

With higher pocket pairs it is not for set value. However, with 22 we are hoping villain misses. We are either going to have to 3bet ourselves pf or raise a cbet on the flop or bet a checked turn. Somewhere we are going to have to bet again if it is not for set value. Since any made hand beats us then I prefer to look at 22-55 as specifically for set value even in this case.

Then again, I am the one who cant figure out the worlds simplest rule. (evidently)

Greg