10/20 LO8 hand

[Lunar Tweak]

very loose passive game. it's 6 way action to hero in the BB w/ A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] who checks.

Flop 6 players (6sb)
2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
checks to the BU who bets, SB calls, Hero calls, everyone else folds.

Turn 3 players (4.5bb)
2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img][6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
SB bets out, hero folds...

my questions are:
1) should hero peel the flop?
normally i fold flush draws w/ 2 low cards on board, but since i figured i could turn a lot of straight draws to scoop i thought it might be okay.

2) if SB folds instead of calls, is there any value in hero raising?

thanks for your time.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
my questions are:
1) should hero peel the flop?
normally i fold flush draws w/ 2 low cards on board, but since i figured i could turn a lot of straight draws to scoop i thought it might be okay.

[/ QUOTE ]Tweak - "BU" means "button"? If so, 1. Yes you should call Button's bet after this flop.

[ QUOTE ]
2) if SB folds instead of calls, is there any value in hero raising?

[/ QUOTE ]Huh? Everybody checks the flop to the button who bets, right? And you want to know if there is value in raising if SB folds?

Am I missing something?

Getting heads-up, out of position against someone who has bet this flop doesn't make any sense to me. Instead I'd want to encourage as many calls as possible, so as to get as much pay-off as possible if I made the flush. Drawing for flush is a pulling situation. Thus if your raise is likely to get you heads-up against Button, raising would be purely stupid.
I don't imagine you're playing against idiots who will call a double bet after checking, but if you are, sure, go ahead and raise.

I must be misunderstanding your 2nd question.

Following is my analysis for question number 1. (Should you call a bet and continue, drawing primarily for the flush, but also having a back-door nut straight draw when the flop has two low cards?)

I'm going to ignore straight flushes. After the flop there are five low clubs and three high clubs that don't pair the board. Then on the river there are 32 cards that don't pair the board.
high clubs
3/45*9/44 = club flush scoop
3/45*23/44 = club flush split pot
3/45*12/44 = club flush but paired board
low clubs
5/45*32/44 = club flush split pot
5/45*12/44 = club flush but paired board
tens, fours, deuces
9/45 = paired board fold
kings
3/45*29/44 = miss
3/45*5/44 = nut straight scoop
3/45*2/44 = trip jacks on straighted brd
3/45*2/44 = club flush scoop
3/45*5/44 = club flush split pot
3/45*1/44 = club flush, paired board
queens
2/45*1/44 = trip queens, ace kicker
2/45*29/44 = miss
2/45*6/44 = nut straight scoop
2/45*2/44 = club flush scoop
2/45*1/44 = club flush, paired board
2/45*5/44 = club flush split pot
jacks
2/45*10/44 = quads or top boat
2/45*3/44 = nut straight scoop
2/45*5/44 = trip jacks on straighted brd
2/45*3/44 = club flush scoop
2/45*5/44 = club flush split pot
2/45*12/44 = trip jacks, low, strtd brd
2/45*6/44 = trip jacks, low
nines
3/45*30/44 = miss
3/45*3/44 = nut straight scoop
3/45*3/44 = nut straight split
3/45*2/44 = club flush scoop
3/45*1/44 = club flush, paired board
3/45*5/44 = club flush split pot
non-helpful lows, including eights
18/45 = low miss

Combining, and figuring played like a nit, but with two opponents, I end up with e.v. of +0.1811 big bet for continuing after the flop.

0.0561 ...... scoop
0.1525 ...... split
0.7914 ...... miss

0.0561*8.5+0.1525*3.25-0.7914*1 = +0.1811 big bet

You didn't ask, but you were correct to fold when the turn was 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Kind of a tough fold, IMHO, but correct, odds-wise. You’d need one more opponent to continue.

Buzz

[Lunar Tweak]

wow, sexy post as always Buzz [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

to clarify my second question, i was curious if it was worth it to raise and try and get it HU to increase my scooping chances against a hand like an A3T9?

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
to clarify my second question, i was curious if it was worth it to raise and try and get it HU to increase my scooping chances against a hand like an A3T9?

[/ QUOTE ]Tweak - Of course you do increase your chances of scooping when you have fewer opponents. But I think you're an under-dog to A3T9. (Might depend on the suits). And you're out of position.

No. It's not worth it to raise to try to get heads-up. You should greatly prefer as many opponents as possible.

Buzz