Response to a (live) three bet--weak or reasonable?

[jfk]

Live 15/30, with seven or eight at the table. Typical loose and passive conditions.

Villain is a winning, thinking player. He plays close to by-the-book TAG. He sees me as too tight, especially post flop. He can be expected to play hands in a very straightforward, by the book manner when HU. I don't recall the guy ever taking a shot at me. He's one of the few players with whom I've ever had (quiet), honest strategy conversations at the table. He was once fairly critical of a fold I made with a set of aces when the BB led the river into a 6BB pot with a four flush board.

UTG I raise with 99
Folded to the villain who three bets.
I call.

Flop is KK3, rainbow. I check. He gives me a long look and checks behind.

Turn is a brick. I check. He bets. I fold.

In this spot I put him on a pocket pair rather than overs. I don't think he ever three bets either AQ or AJ against me preflop and I can't imagine his three betting a smaller pocket pair than my 99. His flop behavior and style of play made it very unlikely that he had AK (or any K holding).

Is this a reasonable fold here given the read or is the range attributed ridiculously narrow against even tight, straightforward players?

[Captain R]

I would assume he has AK or KK here. I can't see how he could check the flop if he has JJ/TT, he's giving free cards out to AQ (or AJ if he has TT).

[n.s.]

I could see him playing this way with QQ or JJ, figuring that OP is either crushing him with a K or is drawing to 3 outs (unless he puts OP on specifically AQ).

Either way I can't argue with the read here. A tight, straightforward player isn't 3-betting an UTG raise from a player he respects (and even thinks is too tight) without a hand that is crushing OP here. The only question is if we might be able to bluff this guy off of a big pair, but I think his defensive flop check pretty ruins that chance.

Nice fold.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
He sees me as too tight, especially post flop

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I'm not folding 99 here. He's likely 3-betting you with all sorts of worse pairs, and stuff like AJs too. Yeah, yeah, he hasn't taken shots at you. That doesn't mean much.

This is a decent spot for a checkraise. He's going to pee his pants, and while you may well blow him off a hand that's drawing to two outs, you also get him to for sure muck hands with 6 outs and might even get him to lay down a bigger pair than yours given how he views you. You can obviously fold to a 3-bet and on the river you can call an audible based on your read.

BTW, I find this:

[ QUOTE ]
In this spot I put him on a pocket pair rather than overs. I don't think he ever three bets either AQ or AJ against me preflop and I can't imagine his three betting a smaller pocket pair than my 99. His flop behavior and style of play made it very unlikely that he had AK (or any K holding).

Is this a reasonable fold here given the read or is the range attributed ridiculously narrow against even tight, straightforward players?



[/ QUOTE ]

To be really questionable. He can't have AK? You said good player, not uber-nit.

[Overseer55]

Did you consider 4-betting PF and then betting any flop? If you're going to play weak passive after the flop on a board that contains 1 overcard, then I think it's better to invest another bet up front and try to take control of the hand. I don't think 4-betting is always the best play, but c/f on the turn makes you look uber-weak and lets other players know that you freeze up to a PF 3-bet.

[DeuceKicker]

Your description of his long look gave me the impression that he was worried about you having a King. Since he views you as such a tight player, did you think about betting the turn?

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I find this:

[ QUOTE ]
In this spot I put him on a pocket pair rather than overs. I don't think he ever three bets either AQ or AJ against me preflop and I can't imagine his three betting a smaller pocket pair than my 99. His flop behavior and style of play made it very unlikely that he had AK (or any K holding).

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a reasonable fold here given the read or is the range attributed ridiculously narrow against even tight, straightforward players?





To be really questionable. He can't have AK? You said good player, not uber-nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

The playing interaction with this guy is fairly unusual. He almost has a code about whom he'll choose to hard play or snow. If he had AK, it is very close to 100% he'd bet out. Its very unlikely he'd have KQ or KJ.

[ QUOTE ]
Did you consider 4-betting PF and then betting any flop? If you're going to play weak passive after the flop on a board that contains 1 overcard, then I think it's better to invest another bet up front and try to take control of the hand. I don't think 4-betting is always the best play, but c/f on the turn makes you look uber-weak and lets other players know that you freeze up to a PF 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against him, no. He'd call down any big pair unless the board came really bad. That and I like to maintain the impression that I play him in a straightforward manner as it affords me certain opportunities in big pots.

Even against a typical opponent in this game I'd not often three bet 99. I don't find myself getting isolated much, especially with an UTG raise. If I'm three bet after an UTG raise is means my 99 have a big equity deficit. In my experience in this game, many players cold call even JJ, QQ or AK in this spot. Bad position means that I don't want to bloat a pot and tie the typical player into hanging around with overs. Against much/most of the table I'd show down with 99 on the current board. The fold here was very player specific.

[ QUOTE ]
Your description of his long look gave me the impression that he was worried about you having a King. Since he views you as such a tight player, did you think about betting the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but I thought about check raising the turn. Betting the turn means that he'd hold on to any pocket pair. A check raise would be likely to sell him that I held a KK or a pocket pair bigger than his. He was putting me on AQ or AJ here so even the check raise may have been unnecessarily fancy.

[Clarkmeister]

Heck, it sounds like you should've just open folded when you didn't spike your set.

[daveT]

Bet the flop, play accordingly, next hand.

I don't think that there is much in the way of putting your opponent on ranges here. I truly doubt that villian just flopped quad kings. The hand is basically what your opponent thinks you have. I would think he believes that my UTG raise includes a king. The book says re-raise with TT+, AK, and I guess a few others. So, you are "ahead" of his range.

[chillrob]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop, play accordingly, next hand.

I don't think that there is much in the way of putting your opponent on ranges here. I truly doubt that villian just flopped quad kings. The hand is basically what your opponent thinks you have. I would think he believes that my UTG raise includes a king. The book says re-raise with TT+, AK, and I guess a few others. So, you are "ahead" of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? If villian's preflop range is what you give, hero is behind every single hand.