To call down or not to call down...

[emKay]

Ok guys, villain is an unknown. I don't like my calldown, but where can I find a fold? Fold the flop is certainly not good. I kinda have totally no idea what's the best line in this hand:

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[Genesis]

Checkraise the cheap street, see how opponent reacts.

[CasqueNoir]

I think this line is quite allright. Against someone you can trust, sometimes raise the flop and if 3bet you can pretty much pencil a hand better than yours and go from there.

[aargh57]

No, you definitely can't fold anywhere here. I think that I c/r this dry flop and then donk the turn. Although in Stox's new book he advocates a c/r c/c line against aggressive players especially in a coordinated flop. However, here, I think that you often have the best hand but it's vulnerable and you have a good chance that villain will fold either on the flop or the turn when he's got outs and sometimes will even fold a better hand like JJ-99. I think either way though, you should c/r this flop whether you plan to lead the turn or not.

[Nick C]

Given that the initial raise came from MP, I would probably fold preflop. But I don't think calling is too bad.

I guess probably the place to make a decision postflop is the turn. If I called there, I would be calling again on the river. And, hell, that turn call doesn't really cost you much even if you are behind, since there's a decent chance your outs are clean even if you are chasing.

I suppose checkraising the flop and going from there is also an option, but mostly this is for value (if it's good at all) since Villain is unlikely to fold anything you want him to on the flop or turn except for, like, QJ.

Anyway, against an unknown, the calldown seems as good as anything to me.

[yourface]

against unknowns we shouldn't be looking to find a fold, especially when we have taken such a passive line with a good showdownable hand.

my standard line here is c/r flop and go from there. bet/calling turn vs some bet/folding vs others. your line has benefits against an unknown because you make sure you get to showdown and get a feel for his play. the only problem is that you've got some reverse implied odds because you're screwed a lot of the time when villain bets all three streets. definately not enough of the time to fold though.

and there's no way villain folds 99-JJ here.

[aargh57]

I would disagree with no villain folding 99-JJ. I think depending on the card. Say he's got 99 and a J,Q, or K hits the turn. Now I think some opponents may fold to a turn bet. Maybe it won't work often but it would be great if it worked even vs 10% of unknowns.

[MacGuyV]

I would not disagree that no villian folds 99-JJ. It's such a narrow part of his range though that who cares. The crux of raising with a pair on the flop as usual is that people don't fold Ace high.