I'm at a very confusing place right now... 5NL

[jon166]

Hi I'm currently playing 5NL on pokerstars. I've basically been following this guide at http://www.liquidpoker.net/forum/vie...?topic_id=271.

So far I'm doing pretty well, I started with 20 dollars and three days later I'm at 65 dollars. I am pretty proud of my self but I'm aware that I could just be on a hot streak.

The confusing place for me that I'm in is because I don't know really what anyone is talking about on this board. I'm reading theory on slansky but haven't finished the book yet, but I'm sure that if I read it I can improve my game even at this limit. However, I'm not sure there are some adjustments that need to be made from the information on the book because of 5NL. Does anybody know?

I also feel like I'm beating this game right now 12-tabling. But I also feel like I'm not adequately learning the game right. I believe that if I sat down on a six max table and focus on one table I can immensely improve, but I'm also concerned of how much I can improve really at these stakes. I don't know if I should just continue 12 tabling slowly building my roll to 500 or so to focus at 25NL, or all the limits the same?

I'm learning towards stop 12-tabling all together (even though it's going decent nut peddling) and focus on one table and apply my theory and everything. I believe aquiring the skill to really outplay novices is essential.

I always here how micro grinding is tedious and if you beat it you should try and just get to the higher stakes where it is real poker. Is this something that is serious or should I focus on totally crushing each level I'm in then moving up?

I am trying to adopt a strictly process and much less outcome attitude, but seriously should I spent the time to really crush 5 NL or should I just continue 12-tabling nutpeddling at this level which seems profitable.

Input is greatly appreciated, thank you!

[chanchuan]

Hmm, beating 5NL is definitely not as profitable as beating 25NL for instance, which is not as profitable as beating 100NL, which is all doable.

12-tabling must be pretty intense, I can't even imagine it right now, are u a robot, dude? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] You're surely missing on some skill improvement though.

I can't tell you what to do exactly, just do what you feel comfortable doing, one alternative is to grind it up to around 180-200 bucks and hit the 10NL tables, cut down on the number of tables and practice developing reads, etc.

GL

[Bowlboy]

I had a look at that guide. It doesnt look too bad but it seems tailored to complete beginners. Read the sticky posts in uNL essentials for startes. Play 6max too, if you want to make more money. You can still play tight profitably at 6max, your opponents just play a lot looser though.

I can 9table 2cent for something like $6 per hour and all I really did was back then was make a big hand and start jamming the pot. You should be able to beat it for close to that or better 12 tabling if you are nut peddling.

Beating novices doesnt really take skill. More discipline is required in not betting into them without a made hand or good equity which it sounds like you're already doing. You cant put them on a range of hands because their are 47 unseen cards in the deck and your opponent can have any 2 of them.

If I were you I'd skip 10NL completely. Move up from 2NL to 5NL(.02/.05). Actually you might learn more at 10NL, but at 5cent you should be able to get a winrate of more than double that which you would get at 10NL thereby making it money/hour for your bankroll.

[Entropy4]

If you can beat 5NL 12-tabling, there's no reason for you to drop tables. Drop tables when you move up to focus on how people play differently. I don't care what people say, EVERY LEVEL IS SLIGHTLY HARDER!

Don't skip 10NL. I started at 5NL/10NL, and 5NL is like printing $1 bills once you get the basics down. Once you get to $120-$150 move to 10NL, and start 10NL with 3-4 tables really focusing on what's going on and how people play differently.

I've gone from 5NL to 50NL and what I've noticed in general is that each level the following things happen a bit more:

1) Fewer players cold call raises pre-flop.
2) Players get more aggressive post-flop.
3) Position determines actions and betting patterns of every hand more than the actual cards.

Keep playing. It's a long road. I've gone from $50 to $1240. It's very rewarding but you have to stay humble. There are going to be times where you doubt yourself, your game, and your will to improve and move up. The big downswings hit everyone. Always focus on your game objectively and you'll be fine. Keep reading too, everything will slowly start to make sense. The strange thing about poker is that the results don't necessarily determine your improvement. You could lose $100 in 3 days but actually be playing at a higher level than ever before. You'll find as you keep studying, analyzing and played, one week all the sudden you'll understand the game at a deeper level and you'll feel yourself beating whatever level you're at regardless of your results.

[KingOfSwords]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can beat 5NL 12-tabling, there's no reason for you to drop tables. Drop tables when you move up to focus on how people play differently. I don't care what people say, EVERY LEVEL IS SLIGHTLY HARDER!

...

I've gone from 5NL to 50NL and what I've noticed in general is that each level the following things happen a bit more:

1) Fewer players cold call raises pre-flop.
2) Players get more aggressive post-flop.
3) Position determines actions and betting patterns of every hand more than the actual cards.


[/ QUOTE ]

QFT (although I started online play at NL25, and now play NL50 and some NL100, so I can't make any claims about NL5 or NL10.)

Congratulations on your early success. Just make sure not to make the same mistake so many poker players do and play underrolled. The 20 buy-in guideline that's the conventional wisdom around here isn't perfect, but should keep you from going busto. I know a solid player, probably better than myself, who kept cashing out when he'd get about $800. He was playing NL100. He lost more than 75% of that one bad night, and didn't play for months.

Someone smarter than me once said on these forums that bankroll typically increases faster than skill, especially at the cheaper limits. Also QFT. This is why you need to spend at least 10K hands at NL10--you don't want the skill level of your opponents to hit you all at once.

Good luck.

[Frosteater]

Just two cents to add. Since I'm around the same stakes as you and merely a beginner, you might take it with a grain of salt, but I think I'm not too far off on this one.

From your post it seems that you put a lot of emphasis on learning the game and getting constantly better at poker, which is great. Especially since you consider crushing each limit before moving on. But there's a catch and I'm not sure if you're aware of it. From what I've seen getting better at poker isn't a "linear movement", like getting better at running, for instance. There are different styles of players and different levels of skill within these styles. Better players make less mistakes than bad players. But this doesn't mean that the bad players make these few mistakes that good players make.

To give you an example, at $10NL on Stars you'll find a bunch of regulars who, as far as I can judge it, play decent poker and most likely read and learn here, too. I'm pretty confident they are winning players at this level. Now when you spot one of them at your table, you know they most likely know what they're doing, you know they read the forums and/or books and you know they know about betsizing and stuff like that. So if they raise pre-flop and then throw out a c-bet about 5/8 the size of the pot on a draw-heavy flop and/or against multiple opponents, you can raise them with any two cards and succeed surprisingly often, because their betsize was exceptionally small compared to what they knew was the right size. On the other hand this move would be a horrible idea against much worse players, simply because they don't know what good betsizing is.

So to summarize it, it's not exactly like you just expand your arsenal of plays while moving up. Different limits might need different approaches and I assume what works at $200NL doesn't necessarily work at $5NL, too. So I'd just concentrate on the stake I'm at. If you're doing that well at your limit, you probably have the skills it takes to beat it and you won't get much better by reducing the number of tables you play. Instead you might consider moving up and then concentrate on fewer tables, if necessary.