Stars $39 - big draw on flop in family pot

[cha59]

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t1590)
UTG (t1490)
MP (t1560)
Hero (t1470)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1420)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, Button calls t80, SB calls t70, BB calls t60, UTG calls t60.

Flop: (t400) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t120</font>, BB calls t120, UTG calls t120, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ?

[sence25]

i would have called
thought about a push but i think you have to discount outs here since at least one of the callers has a FD here often, too

[Chicos75]

I like a call too

[Kevin8423]

I would shove this, you possibly have As/Qs and clubs as outs, you are dominating other flush draws and you have outs against sets/2pair. I see no reason not to get it in there is so much dead money here.

[TheNoodleMan]

Calling defines your hand too well. Hero was the pfr, if he calls its pretty obvious that he doesn't have an overpair. That makes the nut draw pretty obvious.

Raising offers value from from weak hands, disguises your hand to help get paid by lower FDs, and could even potentially fold out hands that have you reverse dominated. I'd bump it up to around 500 and be ready to get it in on any turn.

[sence25]

the more i think about this hand, the more i like a shove
i don't think we see a set/2pair here often, villain has to be a real donk to bet 1/4 ps or call with this.
so A and Q outs might be clean. flushouts obv too.
yeah, shove might be fine with 760 pot and 1390 stack.

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling defines your hand too well. Hero was the pfr, if he calls its pretty obvious that he doesn't have an overpair. That makes the nut draw pretty obvious.

Raising offers value from from weak hands, disguises your hand to help get paid by lower FDs, and could even potentially fold out hands that have you reverse dominated. I'd bump it up to around 500 and be ready to get it in on any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt 500 kind of a small reraise given the pot size and the action?

[Kevin8423]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Calling defines your hand too well. Hero was the pfr, if he calls its pretty obvious that he doesn't have an overpair. That makes the nut draw pretty obvious.

Raising offers value from from weak hands, disguises your hand to help get paid by lower FDs, and could even potentially fold out hands that have you reverse dominated. I'd bump it up to around 500 and be ready to get it in on any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt 500 kind of a small reraise given the pot size and the action?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO yes it is, regardless you should either be shoving flop or betting flop and shoving any turn.

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Calling defines your hand too well. Hero was the pfr, if he calls its pretty obvious that he doesn't have an overpair. That makes the nut draw pretty obvious.

Raising offers value from from weak hands, disguises your hand to help get paid by lower FDs, and could even potentially fold out hands that have you reverse dominated. I'd bump it up to around 500 and be ready to get it in on any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt 500 kind of a small reraise given the pot size and the action?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but its a delicate balance. I'd rather let them hang in cheap here and still have a little FE left on the turn. Any more here and your hammer isn't gonna hit hard enough if you brick the turn.

[sippin_criss]

why is making it 500 better than shoving?