Passive with big draw S8

[Brocktoon]

I was wondering if anyone would be more aggressive than I was here with my hand. I was considering raising 5th and 6th but decided to just call instead. Losing value?

HORSE - 7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (4.80 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

5th Street - (2.40 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (5.40 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

River - (7.40 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (7.40 BB)

[HOWMANY]

I'd raise 5th probably but other than that it's fine. I honestly don't really know what any sort of situations look like equity wise on 6th street, but like a zillion of your scoop cards are dead so I would be surprised if calling wasn't the best option by far.

[Alchemist]

5th is probably a raise. I think Seat 6 is betting to try and get rid of anyone since everyone's board is kind of trashy. I put him on a 4-card Eight and is hoping the 3 paired you and/or Seat 2.

I think just calling 6th is fine with just one card to come and diamonds being really dead. I suspect Seat 6 just made his low anyway.

[Brocktoon]

If diamonds/7's were a lot more live would 6th ever be an easy raise? Or is it almost always best to call HU on 6th when drawing, no matter how robust the draw is?

[Alchemist]

With the big live two-way draw, I think I would just call 6th regardless. The problem is that if you miss both, you'll probably have to bluff the river to win and you'll be hard-pressed to get him to lay his hand down. He'll think his hand is good enough to call one bet thinking he's good in at least one direction.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2648654
pokenum -7s8 6d 4d 5d qc 3c kd - ah js 8c 2h 7s 6c
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 1560 enumerated outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Qc 3c Kd 6d 5d 4d 322 985 575 0 414 54 0 0.448
Js 7s 8c 6c Ah 2h 483 575 985 0 1146 414 0 0.552

I changed the hands a little bit to favor Hero. Diamonds are now totally live, as are Deuces. Changing Villain's 7 to a 5 to give him another straight out actually hurts Hero's equity.

The fact that Villain has an Ace and Hero can't even beat that also makes a big difference. Change the A to a 3 and it's almost even money.

So my convoluted answer is: I'm not sure. He could just be betting his board to get you to fold (e.g. he paired his Deuce) so if you throw in some FE with raising 6th and betting 7th (and he whiffs on his draw there), an argument for raising could be made. I'd like to hear some others' perspective on this as well.

[Andy B]

With the dead cards, I think just calling along was fine.

[Alchemist]

I was thinking about this hand some more and thought of another reason why I think just calling is better, at least in this particular case.

If you raise 6th, Villain may just shut down on the river, thinking his hand isn't going to scoop. His hand is fairly uncoordinated--his only two-way threat is a baby heart flush which is pretty unlikely here anyhow. So only one bet goes in on the river when you do hit one of your scoop cards. But he'll still probably c/c if you try bluffing the river when you miss.

But if you just call 6th, there's a good chance he'll bet into you, e.g. he pairs Aces and has an 8-low. Then you can fold at no extra cost when you miss, or raise when you hit and you will almost certainly be paid off.