Trips - The Optimal Way to Play a Set

[Grandma_DOG]

This post is for veterans out there with a high BB/100 ratio to come forward with your opinions. I have trouble with trips and my BB/100 shows it. Both the books by Tenner and by Zee barely cover trips. Its a hole in the O8 cannon than needs clarification.

Assume Fixed Limit, Full Ring, No reads on anyone. You can make distinction between the play in Low, Middle and High stakes. What I seek most, is advice on low.

Group 1 - The Flop - No possible straights and a rainbow flop.

Case 1: No low cards: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set?

Case 2: 0 or 1 Low Card: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set?

Case 3: 2 Low Cards: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set?

Case 4: 3 Low Cards: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set? Tenner gives advice to muck bottom and Middle, and if your have gonads, muck top, too.

Group 2 - The Flop - Possible Straights Showing

Same cases as before but now there's potential straights out there. What to do?

Group 3 - The Flop - No Straights but 2 suited cards.
Same cases as before but now there's potential straights out there. What to do?

Group 4 - The Turn - No Straights

Same as above.

Group 5 - The Turn - No straights but 2 Suited.

Same as above.

There obviously must be consideration for reads on opponents. What I seek is a guideline, not scripture.

Thanks in advance.

[Fiasco]

First thing you need to do is clarify between LO8 and PLO8. The second thing you need to do is clarify between trips and a set. trips is when the board is paired, and a set is when the board is not paired.

The third thing is that you need to realize that board texture is not the only important factor in deciding how to play your hand. Other factors include position, number of players in the pot, preflop action, etc...

The categories you have divided things into are kind of useless, if you have a question about a specific hand wed be more than happy to help.

[Grandma_DOG]

Good points, Fiasco. The questions are for LO8. And the question was not limited to just trips or a set, but rather both. Its sets that get me into the most trouble with my 1.3 aggression factor, I clearly am misplaying them, but don't know how.

I am desperately wanting to avoid giving hand examples, I'm after broader theoretical thinking. ie. With a set, when there's 1 low card, no suited cards, I'd bet if first to act or raise if bet into. The reasoning is to drive out low hands and get shorthanded where a set, alone, could win high.

The categories are just refinements that may alter answers to playing a set. If I add in # of callers and position that list would be so long, few would want to respond. True, both of those are exceedingly relevant, and should be mentioned in the answer to the Case.

[EffenDolts]

Top trips and top set aren't even the same animal. When you flop top set, you are hoping an opponent has flopped a set.

When you flop top trips, you are trying to figure out whether someone has the same trips or maybe even flopped a boat. Position is very important, but even if you act last, you have to be wary of anyone who calls. They are either drawing or slowplaying a boat. If they come alive later, you have to figure out if you are beat.

If you have A3QK and flop is 33Tr, you might be able to outdraw T3xx with nine clean outs. If villain holds TTxx, you are almost dead, and if villain has A3Tx or similar, you have very few outs. If I miss on the turn an villain bets or raises after calling the flop, I will fold if the pot is small and call if it is large. Implied odds suck, cause I usually only get called on the river if I am beat.

When the flop gives you trips with good kickers, but the board allows a low or a low draw, it can be very hard to figure out where you stand for high.

Effen

[bbartlog]

Case 1: No low cards: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set?

If there are no low cards and the board hasn't paired, a straight is possible.
If the straight requires two specific cards (e.g. board is 9JK), I would still bet/call with any set, since the odds of someone having the straight even in a loose game are less than 50%.
If the straight does not require two specific cards (e.g. board is 9TJ), then I would check/fold bottom set, and check/call with middle and top set if odds to draw to a FH were there. You have to discount your equity when drawing with a middle set, however.

Case 2: 1 Low Card: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set?

Bet middle and top set hard if board does not enable a flush or straight. People will likely have straight draws, some may chase backdoor lows... charge them the max. You also don't want someone with just top pair on the flop to stick around and make a better FH than you by the river.

If a straight is enabled, see above line for no low cards on flop - but you need to discount your equity another 20% or so to account for backdoor lows, unless you happen to have a backdoor nut low draw yourself. Practically speaking this means you will be folding middle set almost every time here; you could call one SB into a 10SB pot if closing the action, but it will be unusual for the odds to be correct for a call.

Case 3: 2 Low Cards: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set?

If board is very uncoordinated (which it often is in this case), top set can be a pulling hand on the flop. I like to bet here, but I wouldn't raise if I thought someone would fold a high I was beating. On the other hand, if two to a flush are out it's probably a good idea to raise it up.
Middle set / bottom set: you have a strong low draw to go with your set, so raise it up! ... you don't have a low draw to go with your low set? ... then fold preflop.

Case 4: 3 Low Cards: Do you check, bet or raise top set? Middle Set? Bottom Set? Tenner gives advice to muck bottom and Middle, and if your have gonads, muck top, too.

In a tight game where you're HU against the nut low much of the time, folding seems reasonable. But if the board doesn't allow a straight or flush and I am up against two or more opponents, I will bet/call top set on the flop and maybe bet it again on the river if no one seems to have made a better high and there are still multiple callers.
Middle and bottom set are probably check/folds, though under the right circumstances (uncoordinated board, lots of callers, only one bet per round) I might check/call to the river.
Also, as noted previously, if you made a set on this board you should have a low draw yourself most of the time.


One other note: if you're HU, have a set, and there are two low cards on the flop (and you have no credible low), you should consider check/calling the flop and then betting the turn if the low doesn't come. In an unraised pot this deprives opponent of correct odds to chase his low to the river.