Pot odds calculation

[yellowdoyle]

Lets say I make a raise to 1000 chips. Some rude old jerk instantly reraises me (!!!) to the total of 4500. He has me covered. I only have 6k total, so if I go all in the old guy is definitely calling.

To make the math easier, lets say the blinds + antes in the pot magically equal 1000.

So my 1000 + b/a 1000 + old guys 4500 = 6500.

Now, again we are assuming old guy will call if i go AI. So lets just change that number to 6k, the amount of chips I have.

1k +1k +6k = 8k. It is 5k more to me. So are my odds 8:5 ?

Or, since the pot will include an additional 5k from me if I were to go all in vs this guy and make the pot....

6k me + 6k him + 1k b/a = 13k. Am I getting 13:5?

In one case I am getting a little better than 1.5:1, in the second case I am getting like 2.7:1.

Please confirm! Thanks for your help!

[Teddie]

You dont count the money you are about to put into the pot.

[Harv72b]

Truth. What you would be looking at is immediate odds of 6500:3500, or a hair less than 2:1, to call. In this situation, I'd want AK or AA-QQ to continue, maybe JJ, against an unknown. And of course I'd be pushing if I did continue.

When you take future bets which you could win into consideration, those are implied odds. They don't really apply here since your only options are to push or fold (so you only really want to be looking at your immediate pot odds vs. how your hand stacks up against his range), but let's say that both you and he had stacks of around 20k. Now, if you had a hand like 77 or some other mid pair, you could call the preflop raise based in your implied odds if you should flop a set. That's true even if you knew that he had AA (against most opponents even more true, because so many players struggle to fold pocket aces after the flop).