16T: folding KK pre on bubble

GoldnEagl · #1 05-09-2007, 04:15 AM

I'm not sure if this is the right play..and power tools says its wrong but idk.

sorry no converter..
200/400/25
UTG: 230
BTN: 2430
SB: 8085
Hero:2755

I'm dealt KK. shorty folds, button folds, big stack shoves and I fold.

Power tools says if he's shoving any two, and he is 100%, I can call with JJ+ and calling w/ KK would be +EV by 2.8% but I'm not sure. what do you guys think?

Seeeno · #2 05-09-2007, 04:20 AM

If you think he is on ATC and SNGPT show's that a call is +ev, it is.
You have to figure out if he is really on ATC here.
Like, if he is only on top 20% this may be different.
blinds are 200/400 + ante, and we are not super short, but I think our 7BB dont justify a fold.

I dont have Powertools here I'm in school right now but try to give him some different ranges like 10, 15, 25, 40, 50, 60, 80, and 100.

I think most of the time its a call.

QQ will be way different, and if he is pushing only 50% of his hands I think you have to laydown JJ b/c its -ev in the long run

GoldnEagl · #3 05-09-2007, 04:29 AM

the guy knows what he's doing. and im positive he was shoving any two but it just seems like the risk is too much to make it a call. i means its KINGS but it just seems like a fold. idk its really tough IMO

jack_of_hearts · #4 05-09-2007, 05:00 AM

I don't think its a tough call. I think its an easy call and I lean towards calling tight on the bubble. I might fold QQ here.

Seeeno · #5 05-09-2007, 05:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
idk its really tough IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

It cant be that tough.
you said you think this is close becaues of the shorty.
You say the guy knows what he is doing and is pushing 100%, okay.
Now give this numbers into SNGPT and it tolds you EXACTLY what to do best.
It says call (with soooo many %%%%)
then its not close, its clear.

Seeeno · #6 05-09-2007, 05:09 AM

Edit: If you KNOW that he is pushin ATC, and you are holding QQ, put it into SNGPT and if it shows its still +ev with .5% or whatsoever then pls put all your chips in.

All you need is chipdistrubtion and calling/pushing ranges of villain(s). If you have this (and you do in this hand) then you look at the math and do what it is telling you.
Math wont lie to you.

Oasis88 · #7 05-09-2007, 05:09 AM

Without looking at the math I would find this hard to lay down especially at 200/400. Fold if you really need the money but if you think he knows what he is doing then insta call because he should be shoving anything.

Seeeno · #8 05-09-2007, 05:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold if you really need the money

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF I dont understand that.
when you need money why would you ever make a -ev decision (or ever make a -ev decision at all)?

GoldnEagl · #9 05-09-2007, 05:29 AM

the money is not the issue. and btw..power tools makes me put in a minimum of 450 chips for the shorty instead of 230 which changes this situation drastically IMO. him having 450 makes it a call by the %ages i said before but they would change a ton if he had 230

Seeeno · #10 05-09-2007, 06:33 AM

Given a 100% range, and hero KK, + shorty 230 stack after placing his ante makes it still a call.

You should call 88+ and AKs
EQ FOLD 27,4
EQ CALL 33,5 !!!!

This is a HUGE difference, and to pass this one would be VERY bad.
(I'd fold 88 - JJ here without thinking this could be +ev - lovly ICM so much to learn)

a HUGE +EV call and not even close