Two takes on the same hand

*TT* · #1 05-09-2007, 04:08 AM

Live 8/16 game in Vegas, hanging with my boy JBB. Game was short not long ago, just filled up but was 4 handed for a while. Button is the villain, my experience so far with him tonight made me think he is a standard Vegas weak-tight local. Semi-loose pre-flop, but very tight post flop. He tends to only have eyes for his hand when he holds something that he views to be premium, and can put in too many bets by being over aggressive. So far I have seen villain cold call with hands he should be three betting like AQ, and TT.

Question 1) I open in late position with 44, villain is on the button and 3-bets, I call and its HU for 7.5 bets. Flop is 235 rainbow and I'm first to act - whats my line knowing that the villain will raise or 3-bet any overpair to the board as well as a hand like AK.

Question 2) Within the hour we find out we were very wrong about the villain, he is now playing 45% of his hands pre-flop and cold calling 3-bets loosely. He also started peeling lightly on the flop, and is taking shots on coordinated boards. He continues to trap players post flop, he is not the type to fast play at all. Knowing this, if we were to replay the hand what is the Hero's best line on the flop?

invictus33 · #2 05-09-2007, 06:04 AM

I lead out to get an idea of what he's holding here. It's an easy call if he raises and we can c/c the turn and fold easily to rive bet UI if he's still firing.

Looking back I might go for a c/r on the flop (calling a 3-bet) and then leading a blank turn. I wouldn't be as worried about what he's holding since it could be just about anything.

I like having 8 clean outs and even a small pair here. We can press our edge a little bit after finding out villian is pretty much a maniac.

steakhouse · #3 05-09-2007, 07:14 AM

1) If he's got a premium starting hand and plays overly aggressive postflop we can just c/c the whole way unimproved. We get 1:7.75 on the river and villain *should* have AK often enough to make a call profitable. Naturally if K hits we can fold on the river. When you hit just ram and jam.

2) I think that a turn semibluffraise would be the best way to pick up the pot. Or just C/R flop and fire the turn. Peel and fold the river if you get raised.

WalkAmongUs · #4 05-09-2007, 08:07 AM

1) I like a c/r on the flop. you said he was very tight postflop so I would think a flop c/r would either win you the pot or let you know whether you are behind or not. I would think if he 3-bets you then he's got you beat. If he just calls you, I'd fire again on the turn.

2)i'd call the flop planning on betting or c/r-ing the turn based on how I thought opponent plays on the turn (will he fire again UI or give up after the flop).

steakhouse · #5 05-09-2007, 08:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Question 1) I open in late position with 44, villain is on the button and 3-bets, I call and its HU for 7.5 bets. Flop is 235 rainbow and I'm first to act - whats my line knowing that the villain will raise or 3-bet any overpair to the board as well as a hand like AK.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead out to get an idea of what he's holding here. It's an easy call if he raises and we can c/c the turn and fold easily to rive bet UI if he's still firing.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) I like a c/r on the flop. you said he was very tight postflop so I would think a flop c/r would either win you the pot or let you know whether you are behind or not. I would think if he 3-bets you then he's got you beat. If he just calls you, I'd fire again on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]Am I the only one who can read around here?

invictus33 · #6 05-09-2007, 08:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who can read around here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just wondering what it is that you are reading. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

James. · #7 05-09-2007, 09:22 AM

as far as question 1 goes, i would c/c down the whole way UI. we're getting 3.5-1 effectively and it's 3-1 he has a big pair. i assume if a king comes we can safely c/f UI?

as far as question 2 goes, you say he is coldcalling 3bets lightly. is he actually 3betting lightly?

*TT* · #8 05-09-2007, 11:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as far as question 2 goes, you say he is coldcalling 3bets lightly. is he actually 3betting lightly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was never able to determine that, but later on in the game I did realize he was 3-betting and never releasing. Often I didn't see the hand at showdown. The player is a rather unique character for sure. Lets not mix this observation while discussing Question 1, but it is applicable for Question 2.

*TT* · #9 05-09-2007, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) If he's got a premium starting hand and plays overly aggressive postflop we can just c/c the whole way unimproved. We get 1:7.75 on the river and villain *should* have AK often enough to make a call profitable. Naturally if K hits we can fold on the river. When you hit just ram and jam.

2) I think that a turn semibluffraise would be the best way to pick up the pot. Or just C/R flop and fire the turn. Peel and fold the river if you get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice answers.

Q1 - The turn is the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] making a 2 flush on the board. Whats your play now if we don't improve on the river? in both scenarios?

Q2 - I later played two hands where I was able to induce a bet from this opponent unimproved on the river. How does that affect your play now that the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] has hit the turn in both scenarios?

note - I forgot what the river card was, but I think it was a blank.

terencetsao · #10 05-09-2007, 11:56 AM

q1 : with the king of hearts on the turn, i will just check fold there. our equity have gone down dramatically.
q2 : with that image, I will lead out to see where i am. Once i get called then i will give up.