Discussion: Defending the Button

[74o_Clownsuit]

I remember watching an old istrong video and a situation came up where he was sitting in the BB with some middling hand like ATo and the CO raised. He said something like: "I'm gonna fold. Some players could argue 'you have to defend your blinds!' but this isn't a tournament. In a cash game, defend your button."

In a tournament it's important to let aggressive players know that your blinds are not for sale, because they are your lifeforce. In a cash game, I'm willing to fold all sorts of speculative hands in the blinds to a raise. Playing OOP too often when there is no pressure on you (pressure meaning escalating blinds or not being able to reload) is giving away money unless you have insane reads on villian and/or ridiculous postflop skill. But don't kid yourself; keeping it simple at SSNL for the most part gets you the $$$.

The concept of "defending" my button was an "AHA" moment for me and I've been working with it ever since. Lots of hands are worth a single raise aaginst alot of villians for 100bb when you're sitting on the button. Nit opens in MP? You can call with a range ridiculously wide here and take away so many pots from him on the flop, not to mention the times you hit a nice hand and bust his overpair. Lag opens on CO? Defend with your s00ted connector or s00ted ace and make the occasional 3-bet with good hands that crush his range and leave you HU in position for a good-sized pot.

Sklansky and Miller aren't fooling around when they say that the button is the "bread-and-butter" position in no-limit. Use it for all it's worth.

That being said, let's look at a generic situation:

Assume average 200NL 6max game and 100bb stacks.

Folds around to lag 35/25 CO who opens.

You have T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

How often do you just call and how often do you 3-bet? Obviously folding is out of the question.

If one or both of the blinds are donks then I'm more apt to just call and get a nice multiway pot in position. If the blinds are habitual squeezers then I like a 3-bet more as it puts us in command of the hand and people's calls/raises after our 3bet become more "pure".

I'm not very good with writing theory posts/explaining myself and I know these concepts have been talked about great players. I just wanted to get a great discussion rolling about preflop ranges and reacting to opens from various types of players when you're in position versus being out of position.

Some more questions/situations to ponder (remember in every situation to consider your image/how the blinds play):

-Nit opens UTG. You have KJ/QJ/AJ etc. Are these oft-dominated hands worth a single raise here most of the time to see a flop in position? Do you ever 3-bet a non-premium here? How about cold-calling with a premium?

-Not necessarily a "defending" scenario but say two average non-so-hot players limp in MP and CO and you're sitting on the button with a mid-range suited connector. How often would you like to reraise to isolate versus limping in to see a multiway pot in position?

[CastlesMadeASand]

nice post.

w/ the Td9d i 3bet quite a bit. id say 70%3bet 30%call. this also changes depending on who the blinds are, past history w/ villain, and if villain is the kind of lag who makes lots of plays in 3bet pots and floats oop.

nit opens utg
KJ: fold 95 3bet 5 call 0
QJ: same as KJ
AJ: fold 60 3bet30 call 10
again this can change depending on metagame.

-2 limpers, i isolate a with a ton of hands, suited connectors being one kind.

[74o_Clownsuit]

Would you rather cold call a nit's open with KJ or 72o?

[CastlesMadeASand]

72o

[tw0please]

The variety of nit matters here. Play against a nit who plays poorly postflop with his premiums will be very different than play against a tight preflop raiser who has the discipline to stack off with any overpair on any flop.

About coldcalling KJ vs 72, I can't imagine any reason why 72o would be better, as KJ can be played solely for straight and 2-pair value. Can you explain what you're getting at here?

[74o_Clownsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
The variety of nit matters here. Play against a nit who plays poorly postflop with his premiums will be very different than play against a tight preflop raiser who has the discipline to stack off with any overpair on any flop.

About coldcalling KJ vs 72, I can't imagine any reason why 72o would be better, as KJ can be played solely for straight and 2-pair value. Can you explain what you're getting at here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I mean calling with KJ is better to me too but I was thinking that against most nits or even tags, you rarely will get full value out of your hand. And quite often, you will see a pot HU in position and will be able to float/raise his cbet and take it down, which makes your holecards practically useless.

I'm not saying playing total junk for a raise is optimal or even good but I'm just throwing out some more stuff to think about...

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
72o

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a stupid answer. If you don't like KJ for it's pair value vs. the nits range, why would you like 72o?

You think 7s and 2s is a better hand than Ks and Js? You think trip 7s or trip 2s are better than trip Js and trip Ks?

Not to mention that with KJ you sometimes flop a pair and beat hands like TT.

No one says you'd have to go ballistic if you flop a pair.

No I'm not saying I call with KJ vs. a nit (in fact I think it's a pretty basic fold). But if you stuck a gun to my hand and made me chose one against his range, I'll take the broadways all day long.

If you're floating your cards don't matter, except that holding a K and a J makes it less likely the nit has KK or JJ.

[gball]

Also KJ can win in the showdown against raiser's TT/99/88 just by hitting one pair. Even a nit opens those hands? Pot control becomes essential when flopping 1 pair ofcourse. With 72o only 2 flops that can make you happy are 77x or 22x. Flopped bottom 2 pair hand is very vulnerable.

Edit: bilbo-san was faster.

[74o_Clownsuit]

bilbo-san I basically agree with everything you said (I never play 72o lol), I'm just enjoying the discussion and seeing everyone's thought process.

You see, things like these are "simple" to alot of people. Some people "get it" too but don't think about why they take certain lines or why calling with oft-dominated broadways to a single raise isn't that bad. Alot of advice/thought processes in most cases go something like:

"I have a good hand. I bet!"

"My hand sucks! Fold..."

"I have a low pair. Time to try and hit a set!"

In any case, thanks for the post.

[BobboFitos]

to the guy said he'd rather call a nit's raise with 72o then KJo:
that is fucked up dude. you'd rather not call the raise with either, but KJ has less of a neg EV then 72.

I think you also said folding is out of the question OTB w/ T9d vs a LAG. Well, I fold there alot. I think it's right to fold there alot, too.