First Post, 2.2k hands into learning Omaha 8

[sfgiants]

After depositing 10 bucks on Pokerstars, I dabbled a bit in microstakes no limit holdem, but after reading about Omaha 8 a bit I thought that would be of more interest to me. Desiring to learn the game, I purchased a copy of SuperSystem 2 and read the Omaha 8 chapter a few times. I also found a few strategy websites/articles on the internet that were very helpful.

I initially started with play money, just to get practice on reading my hand, what the nuts were, and to generally get a feel for game. I graduated to the .02/.04 limit tables, and won a modest amount initially, mostly by virtue of my tight preflop standards. I was still making quite a few mistakes misreading my hands, but maintained a disciplined approach (only drawing to the nuts at this stage).

After about 800 hands, the frequency of my mistakes decreased to the point where I felt comfortable at the .05/10 games. At this level I began to take a more methodical approach, making an effort to accurately calculate my outs quickly, and in my head. Previously, it would take me a good 10 seconds to a) figure out my hand and b) find my outs.

I continued my success at this level with this new approach, and soon graduated to the .10/.20 tables after 800ish hands at .05/.10.

The .10/.20 tables is where I am currently playing, and I have seen no dropoff in donks so far. I have now added another dimension to my game in that I am actively thinking about my opponents holdings (previously, I would just take a math based approach on my own hand).

I now also review certain hands/sessions in PTO, looking for mistakes and leaks. I keep a notebook near me when I play with a) an outs/pot odds chart and b) a space for me to jot down questionable decisions and situations which I hope to review later.

My current bankroll stands at 27.54 and I hope to build it up to 50 dollars before I take a shot at the .25/.50 tables, which seem reallly juicy. Once I establish an adequate bankroll for .50/1 I will probably consider moving to Full Tilt for rakeback purposes.

I'm sure I still have many leaks, so I will always be on the lookout for good advice. I look forward to recieving some helpful responses to hands that I post in the upcoming weeks (though I hope I don't bore you with the low stakes that I play!) I still have A LOT to learn, and I WILL make mistakes. My job now is to learn from these mistakes instead of repeating them.

If anyone has gotten through to this point, I thank you for reading this long-winded post. I look forward to learning and improving my game.

P.S I've attached my PTO stats in case anyone notices any glaring mistakes or problems.

[Heron]

The sample is very small and it seems that you're running well. Hence your idea to stay at .10/.20 until you'll have $50 is certainly a good one.

I played some 10,000 hands at 0.02/0.04 at Stars from January to March and had swings from 3.2 BB/100 after 3,000 over 0.96 BB/100 after 6,500 to finally 1.6 BB/100 at the end of the project. I tried to apply Ray Zee's 'Basic Strategy' then.

It will be interesting to see how this forum will react to LO-hands from the micros. I don't expect it will be too bad though. For a poker forum this is a really friendly place and some hands from the higher stakes that were posted here could have been played at the micros as well.

[sfgiants]

Indeed, two thousand hands is a very small sample size. Still, I do consider myself a better player than most everyone at the table at these stakes, so I'm not tremendously surprised at my winrate.. In any case, the graph or whatever wasn't so much the main focus of my post, just an addendum.

With regards to hands posted from the Micros - indeed I do not wish to clutter the forums with inane questions: When I DO post a hand I will make every effort to lay out my reasoning and put some thought into it. I can certainly see how some Veterans would find it mundane to answer some n00bs' questions. At the same time, I hope to provide some value-added to the forum.

[Colonel Ingus]

Hey we were all noobs at some point, and I try to keep the perspective that at any given point there is probably someone better than I am (at this point, quite a few), and therefore I have something to learn from them. I started out playing NLHE and LHE like almost everyone else, then dabbled in some PLO, and then PLO8. I was fairly successful at PLO8 microstakes before I finally found my home in LO8 in November 2006. After reading everything out there, including Cappaletti, Cloutier, Tenner/Kreiger, Zee, and Gergery's site, I started out .50/1 FR. I built up my bankroll and moved up in steps and by February 2007 I was multitabling 5/10. By this time, I had gotten a bit cocky, and convinced myself that although I was underrolled, I could easily beat the 10/20 games and higher. What I didn't take into account was variance, even at this game, and I had one particularly bad day where I lost about 1/4 of my BR multitabling 10/20. I took a brutal psychological beating and started to play poorly, and was almost convinced that my early wins were flukes and I couldn't beat LO8. I ended up taking a break from LO8 for about a month.

During that month, I read and reread everything again. I joined the 2p2 forum and learned to approach the game differently. I also realized that I wasn't the only one who found LO8 really frustrating at times. I started again with ABC poker and slowly opened up. Currently I have dropped in stakes but I feel my game is better than ever. All my PT stats have shown improvement, and my handreading is starting to become intuitive, even in multiway pots. To boot, I have a dramatic increase in BB/100 to show for it.

I wrote this post because I related to yours, and felt I could offer something to a fellow noob, since 2p2 has been so helpful to me. Here are some things I've learned along the way.

1. Always look to scoop. If you can't win the whole pot, it's usually correct to get out early.

2. Don't play above your bankroll. Swings happen even in Omaha8, and because of the ostensible 'playability' of a lot of hands, it's easy to tilt and get too involved with marginal hands when you're running cold.

3. Realize that the game is dramatically different as you move up in stakes, or if you're playing short handed (6max-HU). Nut-peddling or close to it is only profitable at lower stakes (but oh how profitable it is!), but as you move up, there are tactical, strategic, and metagame considerations that make the game more difficult to beat and more interesting to play.

4. Read and learn from more experienced players on this site, especially Buzz and Gergery. Post hands and open yourself up to critique. Who cares if it's microstakes, or if you are schooled, it's still +EV.

5. Always look to scoop.

[sfgiants]

Thanks Colonel, that's great advice. Deviating a little bit from my original post, do you think it is worthwhile to read the other Omaha 8 books out there (Tenner, Krieger, etc)? Which particular books did you find most helpful?

As I mentioned earlier, I have read the chapter in SuperSystem 2 along with anything I can find on the internet, but nothing beyond that.

[rando]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Don't play above your bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMNSHO if you graduate to a table with a bankroll barely greater than the max buy in for that table, your risk of ruin is very near 100%. I would recommend waiting until you have more on hand. Looking at your stats, there is a significant dropoff in BB/100 at the highest stakes, which is a red flag that you need a little seasoning, unless you can conclusively determine that it is primarily attributable to running bad or 1-1 terrible big bad beats. I made the mistake of taking too many shots too early at the .50/1.00 tables and blew my roll when I moved up with 5X the max buyin for the level I was going to. You'll be surprised how much better the better players are at each higher level, and unless you can spot them quick it can be too late.

I like your approach so far, you seem to be doing pretty well and fairly consistently, and you can handle the bankroll swings... just don't let your risk tolerance rise too high like many people do. Many of my live game buddies blow their bankrolls online because they undervalue the importance of disciplined BR management and the patience required when moving up levels. Simply putting in lots of hands (1-2 months) at each level is advisable to give you the proper seasoning.

Personally, if I felt I was crushing the .10/.20 tables, I'd deposit more moolah so I was properly bankrolled. Moving up from such micro limits can take so long, so if the skill is there go for it, but breaking the BR rules is the biggest no-no in my book.

[Colonel Ingus]

I would read everything out there, but that's just me. If anything, you get different ideas of how the game is played by proven winners.

[sfgiants]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. Don't play above your bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMNSHO if you graduate to a table with a bankroll barely greater than the max buy in for that table, your risk of ruin is very near 100%. I would recommend waiting until you have more on hand. Looking at your stats, there is a significant dropoff in BB/100 at the highest stakes, which is a red flag that you need a little seasoning, unless you can conclusively determine that it is primarily attributable to running bad or 1-1 terrible big bad beats. I made the mistake of taking too many shots too early at the .50/1.00 tables and blew my roll when I moved up with 5X the max buyin for the level I was going to. You'll be surprised how much better the better players are at each higher level, and unless you can spot them quick it can be too late.

I like your approach so far, you seem to be doing pretty well and fairly consistently, and you can handle the bankroll swings... just don't let your risk tolerance rise too high like many people do. Many of my live game buddies blow their bankrolls online because they undervalue the importance of disciplined BR management and the patience required when moving up levels. Simply putting in lots of hands (1-2 months) at each level is advisable to give you the proper seasoning.

Personally, if I felt I was crushing the .10/.20 tables, I'd deposit more moolah so I was properly bankrolled. Moving up from such micro limits can take so long, so if the skill is there go for it, but breaking the BR rules is the biggest no-no in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty confident the dropoff at the .10/.20 level is attributable to variance, as the players I've played with make pretty basic mistakes over and over again. PTO shows the overall saw flop percentage over 50%, so I'm not too worried at this point. As far as depositing more money, I'm a little hesitant, as I made my first deposit purposely low because I felt completely comfortable losing that amount. I could probably deposit more, but I think starting this low will teach me the importance of good bankroll management - plus, if I become successful, it could become a $10 to $10,000 type of things that I could take pride in. Thanks for the advice.