fundamental strategic 6max question

[Norb]

With the help of this community I succeeded at least now within the lowest 6max levels. Thanks a lot to all the people here who gave me valuable help to adjust my play.

But even though I became an average winner in the smallest stakes I still have considerable leaks in my play. I guess one of my biggest leaks is this annoying full ring player habit to fold way too many hands that could be a winner in short handed play.

On one side I see sample hands where players bet overcards relentlessly for value but on the other side, I think by myself, how can they do this because even if some other player hit at least bottom pair they are an about 30/70 underdog!

One thing that bothers me all the time is the fundamental question about some basic advices when it is indicated to call at least the small flop bet if I hit nothing on the flop in a multiway pot within a low level game where the majority of my opponents are typical calling stations. If somebody could give me some really basic rules how to proceed in such situation I would be really happy. I know that most of the villains proceed even though they didn't hit something and I know also that the probabilities to hit something are quite different from a full ring game but because I have no reads on them it is very tough to check this out.

What to do with unimproved overcards in such a situation? Throw them away?

Thanks a lot for your help!

Best regards, Norbert.

[bassLine]

From the PokerWiki:

Overcards

[Romulet]

In 6 max reads on your opponents are paramount. Against the solid calling station types if you fire at the pot on the flop and get called try to check and get the free card, if they bet you can give up, but keep thenm honest with ak every now and then.
With the loose ags if you spot someone showing down ace high and garbage all the time and raising the flop with nothing I'll quite happily 3 bet them with AJ high and show them down.
I know it seems expensive and high variance but in a heads up pot but in a tough game they will be at it a decent ammount of the time and ace high and 2nd or 3rd pair are often good.

[Guy McSucker]

I am pretty sure that this thread will interest you.

Guy.

[Romulet]

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that this thread will interest you.

Nice, at least I know I'm on the right track with my borderline maniac tendancies.

Guy.

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[Norb]

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that this thread will interest you.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, let's dicuss this example. If some opponent will stay within his hand under this circumstances on the flop and the turn, I assume he must have hit at least something useful, like any (bottom?) pair or some kind of draw. The probability, that either someone will hit at least a pair on the flop with any non-paired cards or will be dealt a pocket pair is about 38%. The probability, that someone will be dealt any two suited cards and hit a flush draw on the flop with those cards is only 2.6%!

Under this circumstances it is very hard for me to understand this example. Either I have a quite reliable read on my opponents or I must play according to probabilities, something else does not exist. Or do I miss something?

I'm really confused now!

[sethypooh21]

If you find yourself frequently having to call bets on the flop in multiway pots, I suggest that part of the issue may be preflop passivity.

[StellarWind]

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If somebody could give me some really basic rules how to proceed in such situation I would be really happy.

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Here are two ideas I like for multiway pots. Assume that it is one bet to you on the flop and folding seems possible.

I. Relative position is a very underrated concept.

1. If you are last to act look for any excuse to call.

2. If there are live players behind you look for any excuse to fold.

II. Look at the table through the bettor's eyes to understand his bet. Many people forget about opponents the instant they fold. Suppose the SB leads the flop and you have to decide whether to call headsup on the button. Before you make your default headsup play, stop and consider what the SB was looking at when he bet.

Was it headsup for him? Then a speculative call might be good.

Or did he just lead into five players and it was sheer luck that everyone else folded? Against most players I'm going to respect the big risk he just took and be a lot more careful.

Or perhaps it was 3-handed? Now you need to consider what he thinks about the third player. Assuming he thinks of course. If this is the first time the middle guy has folded in ten orbits then probably the bettor isn't bluffing.