When Is The Betting Not Reopened?

[EasilyFound]

I can never get this rule straight. In a NL tourney, the BB moves in, but does not have enough chips to make a full raise. For instance, BB has 1000 chips, and big blind is 600 and moves all in preflop. The next player calls. Can the next player raise or is that player required to just call? And I never trust my own interpretation of the rules about betting and raising.

[Slow Play Ray]

In your example, the betting cannot be re-opened after the BB goes all-in because everyone else has already had a chance to act; therefore anyone else still in the hand could only call the raise from the BB or fold. If instead UTG went all-in for the 1000, the bet could still be re-raised, since the players behind have not had a chance to act yet. Capiche?

I actually got in an argument with a guy at my last Foxwoods tournament over almost this exact situation. He had raised UTG, I called from the button, then BB moved in for less than a min-re-raise. UTG tried to re-raise all-in to isolate, and I had to get the floor over to explain to the dealer that he could not do so. He was pissed. We got so see a flop, after which he immediately went all-in, I folded, and his AA was good. So he should have been thanking me for the extra chips.

[EasilyFound]

Thanks. Now I won't forget it.

[PantsOnFire]

Here are two easy ways to remember this.

1. If you don't have enough chips to make a full raise (which in NL is a min-raise and Limit is a half min-raise), then your action is treated as a call.

2. Every player has the right to make one action per round of betting. So when the action gets to you for the first time, you can make any action you wish. If you already took an action and the action gets back to you the second time, you can only raise if you are facing a legal raise. Any partial raises due to an all-in and you can only call the difference or fold.

All cases can be shown using three players.

Player 1 raises, player 2 calls, Player 3 goes all-in but has less than Player 1's raise. Action is over.

Player 1 calls, Player 2 calls, Player 3 goes all-in but does not have enough to make a full raise. Players 1 and 2 need to put in the difference to call and cannot raise.

Player 1 calls, Player 2 raises, Player 3 goes all-in with less than Player 2's raise, Player 1 can re-raise.

Player 1 goes all-in for less than the min-raise, Players 2 and 3 can raise and re-raise at will.

Player 1 calls, Player 2 goes all-in for less than the min-raise, Player 3 can raise, Player 1 can re-raise.

Player 1 raises, Player 2 calls, Player 3 goes all-in for less than a min-raise of Player 1 raise, action is over and Players 1 and 2 must put in the difference to continue.

Here is a numerical example of a situation where most people get tripped up.

BB is 100. Player 1 raises to 300, Player 2 goes all-in for 499. This is short of a legal raise since Player 2 needs to make it 500 for a legal raise. Now Player 3 has a choice. If Player 3 calls 499, then Player 1 has no option to re-raise and must put in another 199 to see a flop. If Player 3 put in 500, it would be a min-raise of Player 1 and Player 1 is now free to re-raise.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
1. If you don't have enough chips to make a full raise (which in NL is a min-raise and Limit is a half min-raise), then your action is treated as a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mess up your easy way to remember, but not all places treat a half-raise in limit as re-opening betting, either.

[Lottery Larry]

An easier way to remember this (for most cases) MIGHT be:

If you've already acted and you're facing less than a full raise amount in total chips, you can't reraise.

If you haven't acted yet, you ALWAYS can raise.

[Sober]

[ QUOTE ]
Player 1 calls, Player 2 goes all-in for less than the min-raise, Player 3 can raise, Player 1 can re-raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

To clarify, in this situation Player 1 may re-raise only if Player 3 raises. If Player 3 calls, Player 1 may only call.

What if, for example you have a 4-handed pot:



Stacks:

Player1: 2000
Player2: 150
Player3: 225
Player4: 2000

Player 1 raises let's say 100. Player 2 goes all in for 150. This would technically be a call by the rules. Player 3 goes all in for 225, which is greater than the original min-raise amount but less than a min-raise of Player 2's allin. Player 4 flat calls.

Because of player 3's raise, can Player 1 re-raise, or is Player 3's re-raise allin considered a call because of its size in relation to Player 2's allin?

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
If you've already acted and you're facing less than a full raise amount in total chips, you can't reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Player 1 raises let's say 100. Player 2 goes all in for 150. This would technically be a call by the rules. Player 3 goes all in for 225, which is greater than the original min-raise amount

Because of player 3's raise, can Player 1 re-raise, or is Player 3's re-raise allin considered a call because of its size in relation to Player 2's allin?[/b]

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think?

[EasilyFound]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If you've already acted and you're facing less than a full raise amount in total chips, you can't reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Player 1 raises let's say 100. Player 2 goes all in for 150. This would technically be a call by the rules. Player 3 goes all in for 225, which is greater than the original min-raise amount

Because of player 3's raise, can Player 1 re-raise, or is Player 3's re-raise allin considered a call because of its size in relation to Player 2's allin?[/b]

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm . . . not sure, but I'd say no. I think player 3 would have to double the bet of player 2 before player 1 can re-raise.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Player 1 raises let's say 100. Player 2 goes all in for 150. This would technically be a call by the rules. Player 3 goes all in for 225, which is greater than the original min-raise amount


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm . . . not sure, but I'd say no. I think player 3 would have to double the bet of player 2 before player 1 can re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]


BZZZZ! Sorry, thanx for playin', playah!
(Relook at Player 1's raise and total bet being faced currently, please)