Keep calling or drawing to 4 outs only? (25NL)

fathazam · #1 05-02-2007, 04:13 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($20.10)
UTG ($25.70)
UTG+1 ($32.25)
MP1 ($28.45)
MP2 ($13.30)
MP3 ($20.05)
CO ($22.80)
Button ($26.45)
Hero ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $0.5, BB folds, MP1 raises to $1.5, Button folds, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($4) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75.

River: ($11.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $7, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $18.50

I didn't have a read on this player as I just got to the table when I got this hand. I don't feel that I necessarily played it poorly. But the hand I put him on was A-Jo or A-Qo, do I call this one down? I wasn't getting terrible PO's but it just didn't feel great either way.

Javanewt · #2 05-02-2007, 04:51 PM

You needed to bet more on the flop -- closer to pot.

As played, I would have led turn.

As played, I probably would have called river. Can't give a reason other than I came this far, why fold now?

Jay.Yang · #3 05-02-2007, 04:53 PM

I don't complete this in SB.

As played, I fold the Flop after his raise. River is a clear fold tho.

Jay.Yang · #4 05-02-2007, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As played, I probably would have called river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... but what hands that we beat might play this way?

negtv capability · #5 05-02-2007, 05:22 PM

I don't understand why you would put the villain on AQo.
If you're calling the raise on the flop, it seems that you've put villain on a semi-bluff. Then the flush possibility comes and you call?
On the flop w/ his raise, I would be thinking AJ, trips, or semi-bluff flush draw. I'd only call w/ K kicker if the villain had a very high AF. So, most likely I fold the flop. On the turn, I definitely fold, well, unless I know the guy's a total douchebag. Villain bets just under the pot. You are getting terrible pot odds, if you're talking about drawing w/ 4 outs- which is the subject of your post. Complete. Fold. Fold. Fold.

Jeff76 · #6 05-02-2007, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't complete this in SB.

[/ QUOTE ]Meaning you prefer to fold or raise?

This hand is too strong to fold, and I don't know why we'd want to raise with it. Usually we'll just fold everyone out, which gives our hand the same value as 72o, and the rest of the time we'll end up playing an inflated pot OOP with an easily dominated hand.

e_phemeral · #7 05-02-2007, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($20.10)
UTG ($25.70)
UTG+1 ($32.25)
MP1 ($28.45)
MP2 ($13.30)
MP3 ($20.05)
CO ($22.80)
Button ($26.45)
Hero ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $0.5, BB folds, MP1 raises to $1.5, Button folds, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($4) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75.

River: ($11.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $7, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $18.50

I didn't have a read on this player as I just got to the table when I got this hand. I don't feel that I necessarily played it poorly. But the hand I put him on was A-Jo or A-Qo, do I call this one down? I wasn't getting terrible PO's but it just didn't feel great either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

As played, I would probably fold the river too. Problem is that you have no reads on the player. At this level, he could be total aggrodonk just representing flush. His $1 raise on flop is silly. Could also be an idiot with AK with A of clubs who just picked up better 2 pair than u.

I think your big mistake was not leading the turn. Definitely bet the turn for 2/3 pot, instead of checking. Turn card improved your hand, why not bet out and show strength? By checking, you let other player take lead in hand and you get no information. He might just think you are afraid of the flush card and that he can take pot away from you. If you lead at turn and he again reraises you, you can consider folding. Or, if you want to be tricky, you could consider pushing the turn.

e_phemeral · #8 05-02-2007, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You needed to bet more on the flop -- closer to pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also agree - you should have bet more on the flop. Bet 1/2 or 2/3 the pot. Looks like you minbet the flop.

Mazzinger · #9 05-02-2007, 07:47 PM

I would have led the turn. Bet $4-$8. As played, call river.

selector2006 · #10 05-02-2007, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have led the turn. Bet $4-$8. As played, call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to play it that way too. You pick up to pot quite often. And if you get called you know you are beat.
By check/calling you can't bluff him off a set. And you pay $4 on the turn and you still have to fold the river.