PL 100 Play along all streets

HesseJam · #1 05-02-2007, 05:11 AM

Villain is unknown to me.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($95.95)
MP3 ($49.35)
CO ($111.60)
Button ($34.85)
SB ($149.80)
BB ($34.90)
UTG ($114.55)
Hero ($115.20)
MP1 ($118.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $4, 5 folds, UTG calls $3, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($13.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero ??

Jurrr · #2 05-02-2007, 05:16 AM

I'd mostly fold or raise preflop. Check flop, but in a pot sized checkraise when MP2 cbets.

HesseJam · #3 05-02-2007, 05:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd mostly fold or raise preflop. Check flop, but in a pot sized checkraise when MP2 cbets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually, I'd do the same preflop. But the table was fishy and I had raised a lot of hands before this one. Normally, I would fold then.

HesseJam · #4 05-02-2007, 05:24 AM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($95.95)
MP3 ($49.35)
CO ($111.60)
Button ($34.85)
SB ($149.80)
BB ($34.90)
UTG ($114.55)
Hero ($115.20)
MP1 ($118.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $4, 5 folds, UTG calls $3, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($13.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets $12.85, UTG folds, Hero ???

a) How terrible is the check here?
b) call, fold or reraise.

BobboFitos · #5 05-02-2007, 05:53 AM

id raise it up pf, but once you limp, i like the overcall closing the action.

id check it here, for starters.

Larude · #6 05-02-2007, 06:01 AM

I would call, the problem with reraising here is that there is a large chance he will push AK, AA, JJ, KK and folds TT, AQ or QQ. From his point of view there is a large chance you are drawing and he needs only really to be scared of 88, a pair of jacks you probably would have raised. If you could be quite sure your aces were outs, you could have reraised, but the fact is you really can't. So If you reraise he will likely push. For pushing the pot isn't big enough, you will have to win it 4 out of 5 times which is unlikely. Just call and lead the turn for about 20 whatever it is.

HesseJam · #7 05-02-2007, 06:16 AM

OK,

first, this is a monster flop for me. Draw to the nuts, Q and T of hearts could make a straight for somebody, two high cards that could be bet by somebody who holds a pair but I have an overcard to the K and J, and I hit 2nd pair which could be improved to a trip. A flop that lets me play well multiway. And my two fellows have enough money

But since I haven't made much so far, my primary objective is to keep the pot small.A raise might take this down a lot but there is always the chance of being pushed off this good potential. So I check.

Of course, I don't like the raise, almost pot sized. If it had been reraised by UTG I might have contemplated a fold (well not really, probably I would have moved in as much as possible). But he folds. If I could reraise all-in here I probably would. But this is pot-limit. There s always the thread that he will counter with a pot-sized bet.

So:

Flop: ($13.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets $12.85, UTG folds, Hero calls $12.85.

Turn: ($39.20) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Well, that card hasn't helped anybody, right?

Hero???

HesseJam · #8 05-02-2007, 06:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would call, the problem with reraising here is that there is a large chance he will push AK, AA, JJ, KK and folds TT, AQ or QQ. From his point of view there is a large chance you are drawing and he needs only really to be scared of 88, a pair of jacks you probably would have raised. If you could be quite sure your aces were outs, you could have reraised, but the fact is you really can't. So If you reraise he will likely push. For pushing the pot isn't big enough, you will have to win it 4 out of 5 times which is unlikely. Just call and lead the turn for about 20 whatever it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you could push, it would be a very safe push. You have to win this less than 50% if it is called and you are good. Since it will not always be called and there is quite some money in it already, I think you will have to win it only 40% of the or something like that. Should be doable. But since it is pot-limit you could just be called and whiff the turn and face a pot sized bet without having the odds to continue with the draw.

Yeah, I think calling is best.

Larude · #9 05-02-2007, 07:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you could push, it would be a very safe push. You have to win this less than 50% if it is called and you are good. Since it will not always be called and there is quite some money in it already, I think you will have to win it only 40% of the or something like that. Should be doable. But since it is pot-limit you could just be called and whiff the turn and face a pot sized bet without having the odds to continue with the draw.

Yeah, I think calling is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okey yeah you are right i made two mistakes, first of all i was calculating the push with your stack, second of all i assumed it was NL. According to my new calculations then villain has 79,1 behind the pot is 27,35. So if called you need to win this 100% - 27,35/79,1 = 65% of time. You will win about 40% of the time to showndown (assuming his range is AK, JJ, KK, AA) so he has to lay down about 25% of the time, that's reasonable. Guess your right!!! As you said while it is pot limit it is still another story, maybe i should shut my mouth then because i don't play it hehehe, but i like your flopline. On the turn i might wanna bet 20, if raised i would shut down. By checking you let him set the betting amount.

HesseJam · #10 05-02-2007, 11:16 AM

Just to complete this, sorry I don't have the hh at the hotel:

I thought it was 50/50 that he didn't have much. Nothing indicated the strength of my hand so far (I could just be a c-s idiot). He is somewhat supposed to bet the flop but the almost pot sized flop bet made me suspicious. Looked as if he wanted to take it down right there. I wasn't sure, so I opted to donkbet 12$. Hmm two of you said 20$. I choosed the highest amount I would give up w/o being committed to call a full pot sized reraise.

But he reraised 20 more (32 total) to go. That made my hand easy to play. He thought I was an idiot. He had a hand. So I called with the intention to move in if I hit the flush and to check/ fold if I don't. I could even lay down two pair if I hit the A (at least I should)

I hit my flush and sure enough he called the all-in with 77 for the set.

I am not 100% sure about my play but I probably did not make a big mistake. But he made a big one with the light reraise on the turn. I don't think anybody could name two cards I could have holded which could justify this light reraise of his.