top two meets aggression

Grifter · #1 02-17-2006, 12:36 PM

Villain is UTG+2 his stats are 50/20/3.5 but only over about 40 hands

Hero is SB with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Pokerroom 3/6

Preflop
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Villian calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop (6 sb): T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Villan raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, Villain caps, Hero calls

Turn (15 sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero calls

River (11 BB): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Villain bets, Hero calls

Final Pot: (13 BB)

I would appreciate comments on every street. I don't have too much experience with people this laggy. Thanks in advance.

jackdaniels · #2 02-17-2006, 12:40 PM

I play it the same.

toss · #3 02-17-2006, 12:42 PM

40 hands is kinda small, but if you observed him doing laggy things you need to give more action. 3-bet the turn and bet/call the river even if he caps the turn. Hell if the stats were over 400 hands I'd go 4 bets on every street. He's pretty aggressive so you need to take advantage of that and suck him dry.

jackdaniels · #4 02-17-2006, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
40 hands is kinda small, but if you observed him doing laggy things you need to give more action. 3-bet the turn and bet/call the river even if he caps the turn. Hell if the stats were over 400 hands I'd go 4 bets on every street. He's pretty aggressive so you need to take advantage of that and suck him dry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? After you bet the turn and get raised I think you have to give the guy some credit for some kind of hand. I'm not saying lay down (god forbid you should do that with those opponent stats), but a call and c/c on the river isn't leaving much $$ on the table. Opponents, laggy as they may be, aren't going to let you go 4 bets on the flop, turn and river without having SOME kind of hand (I'm saying AT LEAST tp/tk - which is pretty much the best hand you can hope he has once the last club falls).

Edited to add: I guess he could have had J9 for that kind of action on the turn as well. He could equally have a big hand slowplayed pre-flop (I find more and more laggy players limping in w/ their really big hands like AA/KK/AKs). But I still think OP's line isn't really leaving a lot on the table.

toss · #5 02-17-2006, 01:00 PM

Do you have any idea how aggressive 50/30/3.5 is?

If its over 400 hands that means villain is a lunatic.

Since its only over 40 hands I only advocate 3-betting the turn either check calling or bet calling the river.

jackdaniels · #6 02-17-2006, 01:17 PM

I don't post here very often. I do understand how agressive this is over 400 hands. I also see that this is only over 40 hands. As such I am more inclined to only call a turn raise after the flop cap. I am also inclined to c/c the river (which completes the flush).

Unless this opponent is REALLY a lunatic, he either just made his hand (flush), had us beat all along (set or 2 pair KT), is on a str8 draw (in which case he missed so we should give him an opportunity to bluff at the pot).

Like I said, and I am by no means an authority here, the hand I am hoping to see is AT, a busted str8 draw or an overpair. If villain had those stats over 400 hands then we could play it differently - as it stands, it is more likely that he just cought some great cards over the past 40 hands or so than that we found a lunatic.

Sandberg · #7 02-17-2006, 01:19 PM

Given how aggressive this player is, he could have anything. Against a player who was just a little less aggressive, I think you might be able to fold the turn but against a player like this, play back at him on the flop and then lead the turn (call down a raise from there).

Fat Nicky · #8 02-17-2006, 01:25 PM

Against this opponent, i really want to put 4-5 in the pot on the turn and river. I'd 3-bet the turn, if capped, i'm check/calling the river.

toss · #9 02-17-2006, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
as it stands, it is more likely that he just cought some great cards over the past 40 hands or so than that we found a lunatic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

callmedonnie · #10 02-17-2006, 02:00 PM

From his aggression the most likely hand that he can have that beats you is a set of twos. K-10 is possible, but his agression on the flop makes it look like he has a made hand right then and there. But then again, he looks to be a super LAG.

Against a more sane player I think this line is perfect. Against this villain I think I would want to get an extra bet in. I think I would donk the river and call the raise, only because it is cheaper than 3 betting the turn, calling the cap, and c/c the river.