weird ruling

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

I had a weird situation pop up at a casino tonight. Does anyone else play at a casino who would ever rule this way? I'm playing 1-2NL and a guy bets $20 into me on the flop. I say very clearly "raise" and then I cut out $20 in chips, put them halfway between me and "the line" and think about how much to raise, and then I go back to my stack and cut out $50 more in chips. I put the $50 over the line and then go to move the original $20 over the line too.

The dealer shouts "whoa, no!" and stops me. Over a long conversation with him and the floorman, they explain that if I had put the $20 over the line to begin with, that would be fine, I could go back for the $50. But once I put $50 over the line, I can't go back for more, because $50 is more than the original bet. The dealer was really condescending and kept going "buddy, I see people do this every day, trust me, I'm here everyday, you're not".

I kept telling him that when I say raise verbally, I could go back to my stack 50 times if I wanted and keep adding chips 1 by 1, but he argued that no, that was only in tournaments, not cash games.

Seriously, does ANYWHERE really have this rule??

[psandman]

Just about everywhere has this rule. Though Randy will tell you that the traditional rule is that you can keep going until you your hands come to rest, the reality of low buy NL hold 'em today is that most rooms follow the rule that once you announce raise you get one motion to raise. You can put out a call and then go back to get a raise. So if you put out your $20 first you could then go back and bring out $50 in one motion. Once you brought out the $50 first though that consituted a full raise.

I do not know of a single Las Vegas poker room that would allow you to simply announce raise and then "go back to my stack 50 times if I wanted and keep adding chips 1 by 1"

Now if you announced the amount of your raise you could take however many motions as you wanted to put it out.

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

Wow, interesting, I had no clue, that is weird. And okay, 50 chips 1 by 1 is a bad example cause that would just be annoying. But 50 chips in 2 goes?

It just makes no sense to me, the whole point of not allowing string betting is so you can't put out enough chips for a call, see a guy's reaction and then put out more chips. So once you've said raise, the guy knows you are raising and will react no matter how many times you go to your stack. It really seems like a silly rule to me, I can't see what purpose it serves, oh well.

I may have been biased too in not believing it because the hand directly previous to this, a guy bet 15, another guy mini-raised to 30, and a third guy tried to raise to 45 (lol cashaments), and the dealer made a huge deal of how he could only raise to 60, it was retarded. He then started babbling on about "the 50% rule", which made even less sense in the context of this particular action.

Anyway, so yeah, well live and learn I guess. Seriously, this is standard in all low limit games at least? So dumb, I just don't get it I guess.

Oh and the frustrating thing now I think of it too is, I did say the amount I was raising to (70), as I put the 50 over the line. At the time I didn't think of that, cause I was more focused on the fact that I said "raise" so I thought I could do a few motions.

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

p.s. do you agree that the dealer and the floorman both saying "you are thinking of tournaments, not cash games" makes no sense, or am I missing something there too?

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and the frustrating thing now I think of it too is, I did say the amount I was raising to (70), as I put the 50 over the line.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should have been a raise to 70 then.

[psandman]

I agree that makes no sense, though it is possible that a room could allow it in cash games, but not in tournaments. This would occur if the room adhered to the traditional rule (as opposed to the modern rule) but alos adhered to the TDA rules for tournament play. (the opposite of your question)

The TDA rule reads: [ QUOTE ]
In no-limit or pot-limit a raise must be made by (1) placing the full amount
in the pot in one motion; or (2) verbally declaring the full amount prior to
the initial placement of chips into the pot; or (3) verbally declaring “raise”
prior to the placement of the amount to call into the pot and then
completing the action with one additional motion.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bav]

If you said nothing and if they use a betting line, this is standard, and I see folks do it wrong exactly like you did a few times a week in baby NL games. But yeah, you are correct that their reference to tournaments was wack. That's completely incorrect if folks are using TDA rules (as quoted by psand above).

Now, most places I play don't use a betting line, so your initial motion with the $20 woulda been fine. You went forward with the amount of the call and then came back and put in the raise size. Dandy. Only places that play with a line are going to care that the first bet didn't cross it. If you play without a line, putting the chips forward past your cards is fine.

And yeah, if you stated the amount, you are golden. You could have used 70 motions of $1 each as you stated. Sounds like the dealer didn't hear your statement.

Just a lot easier to loudly state an amount, or put it all out in one swoop. Too many people try to be cool like the TV pros and do the two-motion thing and end up blowing it.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and the frustrating thing now I think of it too is, I did say the amount I was raising to (70), as I put the 50 over the line.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should have been a raise to 70 then.

[/ QUOTE ]

As stated, if you verbally declared a raise to 70, prior to placing the chips down across the line, the raise should have been to 70. Otherwise, the ruling appears correct.

I would recommend you always state the amount of your raise -- especially at low stakes games. Say "raise." Pause here if you need to consider the amount. Then state the amount of the raise. Then put the chips out.

[KipBond]

[ QUOTE ]
It just makes no sense to me, the whole point of not allowing string betting is so you can't put out enough chips for a call, see a guy's reaction and then put out more chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the idea is the same -- if you can announce raise and then keep going back to add more chips, then you can keep adding them until you get a reaction. Not sure how valid that is, but I think that's the reasoning.

[youtalkfunny]

If you play any place that has a line on the table, and enforces rules pertaining to that line, then you deserve everything that you get.