Ridiculous

[Xylem]

Ive written 2 serious posts on the deteriorating nature of easy profit at low stakes below:


1. I feel (the micro game at least) is becoming less and less profitable.

Players learning of ABC play seem to be the most common adversary on the net now.

And at micro stakes should 1 really be bluffing either an ABC player or a maniac... No.

So where the hell do u get ure profit from?
I guess just hoping to catch them ever elusive fish.
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2. I dont know why my last thread was locked regarding this topic but here is the rest of my point.

Playing NLHE25, i find at the mo, a lot of rocks and players waiting for the nuts.

Its extremely frustrating. Lets say about 1 in 5 are maniacs that u have to be ultra patient with to trap, this leaves about 4 others as weak 'normal' players and the others as pure rocks.

I can make profit on the table but only when i get my cards.
So how do u make profit against these tables or is it just a matter of game selection?

Bowlboy i dont know how ure doing so well, any tips?
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They were both locked due to them being 'lc'. I was also told to post in the beginner section.

I find this insulting, and even after taking the time to find LC in abbreviations (which wasnt there) am still unaware of what was wrong with them.

[ottsville]

Answer to Point 1: maybe you need to play better than ABC. Also your assessment in not true for micro nl.
point 2: you need to play better and adapt to the game better.

LC means low content.

[Xylem]

But the point is im asking about all the easy money there used to (or should) be at micro limits, which doesnt appear to be as prevalent as before.

Also if i did try to 'play better' than them i could get into a lot of trouble running into unbluffable maniacs etc.

Telling me to play better doesnt really answer the question.

[PJo336]

What site are you not finding fishies paying out monies at? They are literally everywhere on every site I have played at micro limits, so I dont really agree with your post

[Nsight7]

They are out there, and if you aren't good enough to take advantage than you need to work on your game, just as was previously advised. All I play is a mix of $10-$50 NL Hold 'Em and I am up 1.5K this month. They are still out there.

[ottsville]

[ QUOTE ]


Also if i did try to 'play better' than them i could get into a lot of trouble running into unbluffable maniacs etc.



[/ QUOTE ]

If you think "playing better" means bluffing more, you have a long way to go...

What might be a better approach against an "unbluffable maniac?"

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

I feel (the micro game at least) is becoming less and less profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]
That could be. It's still wildly profitable.

[ QUOTE ]

And at micro stakes should 1 really be bluffing either an ABC player or a maniac... No.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's good that you say that. Do you really understand it?

[ QUOTE ]

So where the hell do u get ure profit from?


[/ QUOTE ]
An ABC player or maniac is not playing perfectly. Think about the suboptimal plays he is making and exloit them.

Value bet. If you try to bluff a calling station, you are the one being outplayed. Get paid off large amounts and with high probability when you do have a hand.

Don't take weak cards to battle. Raise preflop and punish those who do.

Let people pay too much to draw, and then don't pay them off so much that the implied odds justify it.

Don't semi-bluff calling stations, but do semi-bluff against rocks. There are too many semi-bluffing opportunities to make pure bluffs before the river in these games. You know not to call a bet with a gutshot when your pot odds are lousy and your opponent hasn't shown enough strength to pay you off when you hit. Replace some of your bluff raises with semi-bluff raises with gutshots and similar weak draws. These are 40% cheaper than pure bluffs because you'll hit a flopped gutshot (or runnning trips, etc.) about 20% of the time, hence only expect to lose 60% of the money you put in when you are called.

Watch in amazement as your opponents undercharge you when you make a decent second-best hand. Stack them when the hands are reversed.

[ QUOTE ]
Its extremely frustrating. Lets say about 1 in 5 are maniacs that u have to be ultra patient with to trap, this leaves about 4 others as weak 'normal' players and the others as pure rocks.

I can make profit on the table but only when i get my cards.
So how do u make profit against these tables or is it just a matter of game selection?

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't need to get amazing cards against a maniac. When he has nothing, he will bluff. When he has top pair with a weak kicker, he will pay you off because it's so much better than what he normally has, and because he bluffs so much that he expects frequent bluffs.

A common mistake is to hear that some poker expert says you are in trouble against a rock if you get all of your chips in with one pair, and then use this out of context against a maniac, getting bluffed out right and left because you aren't getting the monsters with which you feel comfortable calling all-in.

You need to use the information that the player is a maniac. Against a tight player, you will lose when you get all of your chips in with top pair. Against a maniac, you're in good shape.

Even if you don't want to tackle the maniacs (a shame), you should still be able to win against the normal weak players, ABC players, and rocks as you avoid the maniacs.

[ QUOTE ]

They were both locked due to them being 'lc'. I was also told to post in the beginner section.

I find this insulting...

[/ QUOTE ]
Instead of feeling outraged, feel happy that you have found strategy forums where your complaint really is banal and low content. The beginners forum is the right place for this thread.

[Xylem]

I limp alot, joining the others looking for them implied odds. When i have a hand i raise.
Im not a payoff wizard and do value bet strongly.
I bluff rarely, but semi bluff nearly all my big draws.

I dont feel im a bad player. I know i dont play brilliantly against my opponents, but making fancy moves at this level gets u in trouble, i believe.

I actually dont know what my weaknesses are, which is a weakness. Possibly when i raise with AJ in early pos, or maybe i lay down hands too much.

Maybe my problem is im hoping to make money too quickly at 10-20c. I expect fish to push with a9 and me to have Ks.
I dont know, but when i hear ppl say i made 1k last month off them it surprises me.

[Xylem]

Btw i play mansion, Betfair (fishy but only 50bbs allowed) and i used to play 888 cash games till they rocked up.

[riverruss]

[ QUOTE ]

I dont know, but when i hear ppl say i made 1k last month off them it surprises me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not realy surprising.
Say you play 6 max $25nl BB is 25c & you have a reasonable win rate of 10BB/100.
$1000 winnings would be 40K hands/month.
Thats only 25hrs/week 4 tabling.