cold calling / good multiway hands

[elena_elphie]

I sometimes end up playing in fairly loose games where there are likely to be a large number of people to the flop for 2 bets. As the pot becomes very multiway, I know it becomes profitable to cold call a raise with hands that play very well multiway such as high suited connectors and pairs. I'm not exactly sure where the line is though, and I would like to know where y'all think the line is.

I will typically cold-call 3 players with QJs-T9s and 66-88 and cold-call 4 players with 98s-76s and 55-22. I may relax these requirements a little bit if there are loose calling stations behind me, and tighten them up if the risk of being three bet behind is not small.

Does this seem too loose, too tight or about right?

Is there ever a point where it is profitable to cold call with a hand like Axs? With 8 to the flop or something? Does it make a difference if it is say A8s or A2s?

[Niediam]

Sounds about right. You are a little tight with Axs though and it definately matters if its A8 or A2.

There are suggestions for how many players you would want for each for these situations in SSH and I'd just use that as a default unless you have a specific reason to change things.

[James.]

yeah, based on your description of the games i think you need to add the suited aces to your ranges.

are you calling with J9s, QTs, 8Ts and KJs-type hands? i would(except maybe the 8Ts). and sometimes i've been known to 3bet KJs, but that's against pretty loose raisors.

[jgca]

Yeah, this is very close to my range, except that I'd be more inclined to get away from small pairs and to go with the 1-gappers mentioned by James. My thinking is that small pairs suffer both ways when it goes for multiple bets pf: losing the big implied odds on a flopped set, and giving proper odds to gutshots chasing the flopped set. By contrast, the good connectors will be worth more than their fair share in current equity, and don't really even mind much if it goes to 3.

I'm also gradually learning to consider meta-factors. If it's going to be only marginally +, I'm dropping the 33 to reduce volatility and avoid the possibility of tilting when I lose a big pot to first cold-caller's Q9o.

[CasaJJ]

I'm still learning limit, but I don't understand something about your calling range.

You say that you'll call with 6's and 8's with 3 players in, but will open up to 2's through 5's with 4 players in. Why not call with 2's and up when there are 3 players.

I would have to think that with any pair less than an 8 you're playing to hit a set, correct? With 3 or more players in the pot anyone sticking around after the flop will have you beat if you don't hit a set because the vast majority of flops will have an 8 plus. If not on the flop I'd think that by the turn you'll likely be facing a larger pair.

I'm sure I'm just not getting something here as my background is in NL and I'm still trying to switch from teh mindset that you're good calling any pair against even one opponent if their stack offers implied odds.

[elena_elphie]

The larger pairs are slightly better than the smaller ones because there are more chances to hit a straight draw, and less chance to get hit by a set over set (and more chance to hit someone else with one). They are all fairly close in value though.

You are right that I am mostly playing for set value in this spot.

[elena_elphie]

... and you can also sometimes continue profitably if only one overcard falls which occasionally happens with 66 but not 33. This is a pretty marginal spot most of the time though.

[ProfessorBen]

88/77/66 clearly have value. 88 is just under 50% chance to have only 1 over card on the flop. Sometimes they can be navigated to showdown whereas 33 can't. Yeah, that and they make more straights/dominate other sets.

[Bob T.]

The other thing that I think is important, is that I am very rarely the first coldcaller. In these situations, you are relying on implied odds, and if you make your hand, and the action is coming directly from your right, you can't raise, because you shut out your oppoenents, and if you call, you don't make as much return on the other end of the equation. If I'm going to coldcall, I want other coldcallers between me and the raiser, so that I can trap them for bets on the installment plan and make a huge pot when I get there.