NL100 - Odd PF Reraise

[Augie]

Going to post this hand in stages -

First PF -

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($33.70)
SB ($141.35)
BB ($28.05)
UTG ($112.65)
UTG+1 ($97.80)
MP1 ($133.25)
MP2 ($95.50)
MP3 ($203.05)
Hero ($174.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $1, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $1, MP3 calls $1, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $7</font>, [color=#666666]3 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $6, [color=#CC3333]MP3 raises to $20</font>.

Hero?

The reraiser is 48/7/2.6 over only 75 hands. Only played with him for a few hours, and he is loose, but seems to know what he is doing.

My image is moderately loose and aggressive, but I have not gotten out of line. And I think villain is aware of my image.

What say you?

Be good,

Augie

[BigBiceps]

what is odd here?

call.

[retep]

NO way he limps behind 2 limpers with AA.

Raise.

Am I missing something?

[chriz300]

I think he´s got AK and wants to isolate u. Maybe he has QQ/JJ.

I would raise her

[futuredoc85]

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I think he´s got AK and wants to isolate u. Maybe he has QQ/JJ.

I would raise her

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the first half of your post should not lead you to the second half unless you arent grasping some fundamental concepts of NL cash games

[disko]

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the first half of your post should not lead you to the second half unless you arent grasping some fundamental concepts of NL cash games

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at the risk of sounding stupid - can you expand on this

thanks

[CLB]

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the first half of your post should not lead you to the second half unless you arent grasping some fundamental concepts of NL cash games

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at the risk of sounding stupid - can you expand on this

thanks

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It's entirely possible that I too am failing to grasp the particular NL fundamental that futuredoc is referring to, but I think his point is that if you really put villain on QQ, JJ, AK then you're better off calling. Another raise might fold those hands out, but you're obviously not folding out the only hand that beats you at this point. Just call here and see a flop. I it's A free you're probably way ahead and villain is propbably going to be firing regardless of what hits. You make more money calling here then you do raising and probably lose the same amount either way in the unlikely event that you are behind.

[Edit: Meant to include this in my original post...When someone makes a play like this I instantly apply the following logic: "This play is stupid (limp/3bet when you were third into the pot) --&gt; therefore villain is stupid --&gt; therefore I will overplay my big pocketpair after the flop" I don't have any real feel for how this works out for me over the long haul but I do it all the time. I continue to be amazed by how often this actually is AA. I probably just don't remeember all the other times as well (you know what they say about the big wins v. the big losses....). Now that I think about I don't think I've seen this move at 100NL with AA nearly as often (if at all) as I did at 50NL.[Edit]

[futuredoc85]

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the first half of your post should not lead you to the second half unless you arent grasping some fundamental concepts of NL cash games

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at the risk of sounding stupid - can you expand on this

thanks

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by raising here we are effectively bluffing w/ KK preflop. When villain is ahead here we have 2 outs, and when we are ahead he has at most 3 outs. By calling we keep the hands in his range that we beat in the pot and leave him with the initiative to put even more money in the pot with those hands. By raising again we guarantee ourselves action from the part of his range that crushes us and we let him get away from every hand that we beat.

[retep]

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the first half of your post should not lead you to the second half unless you arent grasping some fundamental concepts of NL cash games

[/ QUOTE ]

at the risk of sounding stupid - can you expand on this

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

by raising here we are effectively bluffing w/ KK preflop. When villain is ahead here we have 2 outs, and when we are ahead he has at most 3 outs. By calling we keep the hands in his range that we beat in the pot and leave him with the initiative to put even more money in the pot with those hands. By raising again we guarantee ourselves action from the part of his range that crushes us and we let him get away from every hand that we beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this line. You need to play EXTREMELY well post flop in order to play it like this profitably.

Assume you just call. And assume that the board is really dry are you calling down here..

if he bets half pot on every street?
2/3 pot?
3/4 pot?
full pot?

By just calling him, you are creating an unnecessary difficult decision for yourself throughout the hand. Especially considering that you have no ideas what villains range here. It could be JJ+ AK+, but it could also be anypair or SC.

If you are a very good post flop player i would like your line. I would even like your line if our hand was TT or JJ.

Also KK only loses to 1 hand in his range, so how are we bluffing if we raise?

[Landlord79]

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Also KK only loses to 1 hand in his range, so how are we bluffing if we raise?

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Because by making the 3rd raise we are only going to be called or raised by the only hand that beats us. I think this guys range is pretty slim, I'm thinking 8s to 10s. I've seen people limp 2nd in at an aggro table, but never 3rd.

When the flop hits without an ace, we definitely think we are ahead and will probably be betting or raising the flop ourselves. It's a safe line that gives us an escape clause if the flop has an Ace on it.