Hero Professor In Hell Right Now

[David Sklansky]

Just thought that I would remind everyone that Professor Librescu, the Romanian, Holocaust survivor who blockaded the door at Virginia Tech, while his students jumped to safety, is burning in hell right now and will continue to endure unimaginable torture for eternity.

Never mind that (presumably) he

1. Gave his life to save twenty or so young students

2. Worshipped essentially the same God that Christians do.

3. Tried to do what he thought that God wanted him to do

4. Probably thought Jesus was a great man

So what. He was also skeptical of a story involving that God. Not because he thought it was a bad story but rather because he had, in his mind anyway, logical reasons to think it wasn't true. In fact he probably thought that God would be at least a little displeased if he believed, what to the professor, was an obviously fraudelant story.

Big mistake. He didn't realize that God didn't care about his heroism or that his disbelief of the story was partially based on an effort to please him. So now he's frying.

[Duke]

I'm tempted to say that only the choir is listening, David. The fact of the matter is that there's a small chance that you might change someone's mind, though, and that's a good thing.

As an aside, I'm thinking that you make an effort to assign generous probabilities to various religious beliefs being true. That makes you come across as a borderline "moderate," and could actually get more people to listen to what you have to say (by this I mean people who don't already agree).

The sad part is that I'm reminded of Dumb and Dumber. So you're saying I have a chance?

Yes, I realize that this post is mainly meant to point out how morally ridiculous a certain set of beliefs are, and not to create a probability argument assessing how likely those beliefs are to be true. I'm curious, though, whether you think that you ever changed anyone's mind.

I know that I haven't, though I think I have some who pray for my soul daily. Perhaps I'll get a free pass through mass petition.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
Just thought that I would remind everyone that Professor Librescu, the Romanian, Holocaust survivor who blockaded the door at Virginia Tech, while his students jumped to safety, is burning in hell right now and will continue to endure unimaginable torture for eternity.

Never mind that (presumably) he

1. Gave his life to save twenty or so young students

2. Worshipped essentially the same God that Christians do.

3. Tried to do what he thought that God wanted him to do

4. Probably thought Jesus was a great man

So what. He was also skeptical of a story involving that God. Not because he thought it was a bad story but rather because he had, in his mind anyway, logical reasons to think it wasn't true. In fact he probably thought that God would be at least a little displeased if he believed, what to the professor, was an obviously fraudelant story.

Big mistake. He didn't realize that God didn't care about his heroism or that his disbelief of the story was partially based on an effort to please him. So now he's frying.

[/ QUOTE ]

But which circle of hell is this good professor frying in? Check out these 9 circles of hell purposed by Dante for some choices: 9 Circles of Hell

Perhaps the Good Professor can be categorized as a Virtuous Pagan and be assigned to the first circle and thus spend eternity with unbaptized babies. Or perhaps he could be assigned for whatever reasons that please God or the Catholic Church, whichever comes first, to a new 10th circle of Hell:

New Circle of Hell

Perhaps this is all done by vote of the saints, the saved, and the Angels. But then, the inhabitants of Heaven are not organized into a democratic style of government so this is beside the point I would assume.

-Zeno

[chucky]

God focuses much less on individual placement in Heaven and Hell than his believers do. If the professor acted purely out of a concern for place in the after life then Any God would see the hollowness of even the greatest act. Catholics might tell you that purgatory will open the path to heaven for the Prof. Additionally, I would point out that rational judgement does not bound the God of the New or Old testament.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, I would point out that rational judgement does not bound the God of the New or Old testament.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would point out that interpretations of the New or Old Testament are not bound by misinterpretations of the New or Old Testament.

PairTheBoard

[KUJustin]

At the risk of offending some, let's invent a separate but nearly identical professor.

This professor committed a rape a week before the attack. He made the exact same heroic effort with regard only for the well-being of his students, except for whatever reason this time he survives. He is then put in jail shortly thereafter. I don't think very many people would be outraged at his jailing despite his heroism or Holocaust-survivor status.

In fact, I think the above professor is a useful illustration of what the "conservative" Christians are trying to explain in these discussions which is that when a rule is broken there's a consequence, a penalty to be paid and how "good" of a person you are doesn't change that fact.

[Shadowrun]

[ QUOTE ]
Just thought that I would remind everyone that Professor Librescu, the Romanian, Holocaust survivor who blockaded the door at Virginia Tech, while his students jumped to safety, is burning in hell right now and will continue to endure unimaginable torture for eternity.

Never mind that (presumably) he

1. Gave his life to save twenty or so young students

2. Worshipped essentially the same God that Christians do.

3. Tried to do what he thought that God wanted him to do

4. Probably thought Jesus was a great man

So what. He was also skeptical of a story involving that God. Not because he thought it was a bad story but rather because he had, in his mind anyway, logical reasons to think it wasn't true. In fact he probably thought that God would be at least a little displeased if he believed, what to the professor, was an obviously fraudelant story.

Big mistake. He didn't realize that God didn't care about his heroism or that his disbelief of the story was partially based on an effort to please him. So now he's frying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Source? I'm not even sure why you would write that even if it is true, i dont see it adding to your points in your post.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
At the risk of offending some, let's invent a separate but nearly identical professor.

This professor committed a rape a week before the attack. He made the exact same heroic effort with regard only for the well-being of his students, except for whatever reason this time he survives. He is then put in jail shortly thereafter. I don't think very many people would be outraged at his jailing despite his heroism or Holocaust-survivor status.

In fact, I think the above professor is a useful illustration of what the "conservative" Christians are trying to explain in these discussions which is that when a rule is broken there's a consequence, a penalty to be paid and how "good" of a person you are doesn't change that fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, you freely ADMIT that in your moral philosophy, good deeds are completely irrelevant? Your argument about consequences when rules are broken might make sense if there were any rules except "Worship God". But in fact, as long as someone accepts Jesus as savior, then they are automatically a good person and all previous broken rules are ignored, while if they don't, they are automatically a bad person and no amount of good deeds are sufficient to prove otherwise. It's a one-rule moral universe.

As long as we're making up dubious analogies about real-world justice, imagine if Cho Seung-Hui had, instead of shooting himself after the massacre, gone to State House and kissed the feet of Virginia governor Tim Kaine, while professing his total love for and obediance to him. If Kaine then pardoned him and pronounced him now the equal of all other citizens, do you think that would be regarded as just? Yet the analogous situation with God is touted by Christians as an example of God's infinite justice.

How you can simultaneously believe that:

- God is infinitely just
- Bad deeds from believers require no punishment, while good deeds from unbelievers receive no reward

and:

- God is infinitely merciful
- God will torture people for all eternity for the "crime" of not devoting themselves to a religion for which the evidence is extremely flimsy at best

I mean, do you SERIOUSLY believe all those statements? The cognitive dissonance must be simply amazing.

It also makes me wonder where you draw the line. Are non-Christian 5 year olds destined for hell? 10 year olds? 15 year olds? At what point is someone who dies cognizant enough of theology that they will suffer eternal torture for their belief system? This is one of those points at which Christians fall back on the "Well, you see, God Has A Plan" type answers.

[HP]

[ QUOTE ]

Source? I'm not even sure why you would write that even if it is true, i dont see it adding to your points in your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

takes some bite out of the accusation "rejecting Jesus"

[Shadowrun]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Source? I'm not even sure why you would write that even if it is true, i dont see it adding to your points in your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

takes some bite out of the accusation "rejecting Jesus"

[/ QUOTE ]

i do see the "rejecting jesus" angle, but to me thinking he is a great man vs. believing in him is not even close.

furthermore, is thinking jesus was a great man closer to not "rejecting jesus"? i would say no. to me it seems Worse to think jesus was a great man and not accept him (because you accepting the validity of certain events)as opposed to not thinking he was a great man and "rejecting him"

i do see what your saying though.