Thoughts on a Downswing

BingBangBoom · #1 04-22-2007, 11:31 PM

Hey guys,

This is my first thread I have started that hasnt been specific to the analysis of one hand. I have been playing poker for around 3 years now, I started off at home games and took what I thought was my new "skills" to the local casinos. I was definately not a winning live player when i started but the more i played live and got used to the game i became better...obviously. Back then I played on PartyPoker, and although i did very well on $5-20 SNGs, I was convinced it was rigged lol, I would not admit it was my own poor play that was causing me to lose, mainly when i sat in the full ring cash games. Anyways eventually i went busto on PartyPoker and only used it to play the freerolls to the WSOP. After a good 6 months of putting in hours at the local card rooms, and improving my play, I began getting sick of the drive, the dirty and usually annoying people, and the slow pace of the game, so i decided to start back online. On Jan 1st of this year I started depositing between $50-100 dollars a time on stars, and started playing the 4 dollar 180 person sng's, and blowing the rest on cash games i wasnt staked for. Low and behold, i won my first 20 table MTT on stars and got paid $216 which was a bigger confidence boost than almost anything else I had experienced playing poker up to that point. I went on to win one the very next day, and since then ive placed first in 4 more totalling 6 since Jan 1st 2007. I feel my success at the MTT's came from alot of SNG's played on stars, but the problem was that I really had no clue what i was doing as far as cash play regarding bankroll management, the importance of position, and the importance of agression. Somehow, I still cannot remember how i managed to find these forums, (I have plenty of 2+2 books and never managed to find out about the fourms) but I couldnt imagine poker without them. I can honestly say my game has improved 1000000000 % since the first post I read here on Jan 2 07, but unfortunately thats still not enough. After winning those 6 tournys all in January, i managed to blow almost all of that money i had won, playing over rolled and under experienced. Thankfully i had withdrawn around 300 dollars, but it came down to the point that i was depositing out of my own money again. I attribute this to mistaking the application of aggression and going from a very passive player to an over agressive player and loosing plenty doing that. I think it took going from one extreme to the other ( I used to be a total rock) to find a balance that I am currently semi-happy with. I hope by including this graph i do not upset any mods, my apologies if it does, but i just want to show my initial loss in january, and the upswing i experienced once i read alot of articles here and started off playing within my bankroll which was .5/.10 at that time. ( I now play .25/50 mainly).

I had managed to turn my very last $55 dollars i was going to allow my self to deposit into stars into $1,055 as of yesterday. I felt GREAT as it brought me back into positive territory for the year and my time spent playing at stars. That is when IT happened. The inevitble downswing hit yesterday, and has really messed with my head (6 Buy-ins so far). I have gone for almost 4 months straight without tilting bad at all, without tying my emotion to poker all too much, and quitting when i felt I was not playing at my best. Im not one to ever complain about bad beats, unless im laughin about it with a friend but just for an idea of where im coming from , I had my AA beat 5 times yesterday, 4 of which i was ahead till the river, lost with my KK to AA when i got outplayed which i dont really mind but it added slightly to the tilt factor, lost 3 more times with KK to between 2-6 outters on river, and then my final straw was this hand here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($70.05)
SB ($48.75)
BB ($26.80)
UTG ($10.55)
MP1 ($9.75)
MP2 ($50)
CO ($54.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, MP1 raises to $1.5, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold.

Flop: ($7) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, CO bets $0.5, Hero raises to $4.5, SB calls $4.50, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Turn: ($16.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB raises to $30, Hero raises to $53, SB calls $12.75 (All-In).

River: ($112.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $112.25

Results in white below: 
SB has Td Ts (full house, threes full of tens).
Hero has 7h Jh (flush, jack high).
Outcome: SB wins $102. Hero wins $10.25. 

Now you may criticize the way I played it, I know i could have been facing a bigger flush, I know if he had a set he had outs against me, I know if he had AsAh or KsKh he had outs against me, but I had reads on this player and I knew I had him pinned, but loosing this hand and seeing what the guy called the bet with just pissssed me off....i mean INFURIATED me. After last night, I seriously felt ill. I was terribly hungover from the night before, and i have since decided NEVER to play hungover again. I had to pop a xanax, leave my house and go sit by the beach for a few hours at like 3 in the morning just to get my mind off poker and an issue with a girl that isnt even a huge deal but enough to take up space in my mind and thus keep me from focusing 100 percent on my game. Ok, so I have rambled quite enough and by now you may be thinking im just a bumbling idiot, but the purpose of this post was to reflect on what I experienced, to help any of you who are currently or who will experience the same thing, and to hear any thoughts that you guys have on this.

It wasnt till reading these articles Im gonna give you that I have been able to get my mind straight and start to reflect logically on the way the hands had gone down. Some or many of you have prob read these, and if you have it wont hurt to reread them, and if you have not I think its essential, especially if your currently in a downswing:

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/a...m-awesome.html

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/q...benjamins.html

I know that some of you may say that this isnt even a true downswing, maybe just variance, and that is true, there is no doubt that variance is a huge part of a downswing, but It has still allowed me to take a couple things away from this experience so please let me know if you agree or disagree with these things. Also it has caused me to come up with some questions that i would love to hear your thoughts on. In no specific order:

1.) With no reads, at what point (game level and pot size) do you get off your big hands ie KK or AA when your playing an xxx flop and getting alot of action, I know for a fact at the lower levels your almost as likely to be up against QQ,JJ,TT,99 on a xxx flop as you are a set. Also this makes me wonder if its right to lay down a hand in a cash game even if you think you have the best hand but not with a huge edge against his range, say 55-60 percent...its still a winning play isnt it , or are there just going to be better spots?

2.) Youve read it a million times hopefully, but do not play when there is anything in your life even something small that is draining on you mentally in a negative way, its still possible to win but im sure your not playing at your best and loosing leaves you feeling that much worse.

3.)Do not make emotional shoves where you just felt over an opponents 3 bet on any street without truly considering what your doing.

4.) In January I was kickin sum butt at tournamnets...as i switched over to cash games and became a winning player, I have yet to win another tourny although i play less of them...And i know the differences between the styles of play for cash games and tournys or at least so I think, any one else have this problem?

Ive been typing for so long now Im running out of ideas lol but THE most important thing I realized that is so obvious but we do not think of when we tilt:

I was just sitting on my couch thinking about every hand I lost yesterday especially with the last one and I was just thinking....what an idiot...why would that guy have called 100bb with TT on a flop of 3 hearts without even having a heart in his hand and then it dawned on me........duh...what did I want the guy to do......fold???????? Hmmmm lets see, every time you stack off and win and take someones stack, would you rather they have folded? Think about it...that thought alone has helped me crawl out of the hole i was in last night.

My apologies if this is one big nonsensical rant...but I hope you guys can take something from this post. Good luck out there guyz!

CalledDownLight · #2 04-22-2007, 11:39 PM

cliff notes?

Jurrr · #3 04-23-2007, 12:54 AM

Emm... he was inexperienced, got more experienced, but not experienced enough and now has a downswing. I think.

BingBangBoom · #4 04-23-2007, 12:56 AM

Ive had plenty of downswings ...just my thoughts about one, one that i took emotionally for some reason. Didnt know you guys were immune to downswings...but hey ..guess were not all perfect. I know i started off with like a wierd intro thing but its just what i had to do to get the thoughts out ...thats all i can say

Jurrr · #5 04-23-2007, 01:13 AM

Not many people are immune to downswings, I just got distracted from reading after where the 2nd paragraph would normally start. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

LifeTilt · #6 04-23-2007, 10:13 AM

I feel your pain. I'm in a downward spiral that MAY be stablizing...

Lost 11 buyins over about 4,000 hands. It was nasty. I was getting steamrolled by LAGs, trapped by set-mining nits, and stacking off to donks. It's an equation for disaster...

BingBangBoom · #7 04-23-2007, 11:59 PM

Its so crazy how in a downswing...it seems like your AA KK hands are getting beat by hands with little outs or well disguised holdings, and your medium pairs like 88-QQ flop horribly, like with two overs and in multi way pots, its just crazy how when your in a downswing everything seems to work against you, and I guess its best to just tighten up and try to spew as little as possible when you know things arent going your way....youll know when your back in the groove. Its just easy to loose confidence in your play when your loosing money, but I look at it like skateboarding or snowboarding or whatever...if you want to be real good...your gonna eat [censored], maybe break some bones, but if thats what you want to do, you cant give up, if you fall doing a trick, you gotta get right back on the board and do that trick again or else youll loose your confidence.

jamzfive · #8 04-24-2007, 12:44 AM

Some folks around here have heard it all, seen it all, and even been through it all before and worse, so a 10 BI downswing isn't going to impress 'em much, or get you too much sympathy.

That being said, just remember it can turn around just as quickly as it started. I lost about as much as you in 3000 hands, and then won it all back almost as quickly as I lost it. These are all $100NL at UB.

Good luck!

jb

bottomset · #9 04-24-2007, 12:54 AM

32buyin downswing in less than 100 hands I win

BingBangBoom · #10 04-24-2007, 02:09 AM

wow bottomset..thats brutal lol..hope you have a 100 hand 20-40 buyin upswing comin to make up for it =P